About a fortnight ago I posted a link to an article in a popular Dutch newspaper, and translated a large number of the comments which readers of that Newspaper had put underneath it.
This post:
FROM THE DUTCH PRESS: OBAMA: HARDER JAGEN OP BIN LADEN
The article discussed Obama's plans to pursue Osama bin Laden with greater zeal than many Dutch assumed would happen, believing as many of them evidently did that Obama would somehow not adhere to a truly American agenda.
The comments underneath that article were sodden with hatred for Yanks and contempt for the USA. As my translation made clear.
Then I editorialized, stating amongst other things that "it should be evident from the above that there is an element among the Dutch who are probably insane, certainly unreliable, and entirely despicable. Not all, but enough of them."
You will understand, I hope, that this blog is sometimes a soapbox for bile.
[I am actually one of the sunniest people I know. I cannot truly think bad about anyone. Honest. I'm all sweetness and light! And cheerful butterflies! Plus lots of bunnies! Love and peace, bruddas.]
Oh, I also venomously snapped that I sometimes wished the Netherlands would be drowned by rising sea levels. But no matter.
PAUL
To my great surprise and pleasure, one reader (Paul) put a long well-thought out comment underneath that post, which I reproduce here in its entirety:
As someone who has lived and worked in the Netherlands for over 8 years, I feel qualified to make a judgment call. I hate generalizing but if I were pushed I would have to put it down to the narrow line between self-confidence and arrogance. Most Dutch people are self-confident (the nice ones). Many have slipped across into arrogance (the not-nice ones). The rest are insane (nothing special here, every country has these).
I believe it comes down to how the children are raised. By way of an example (and I could give many, many more): I cycle 5 miles to work every day. I pass a short stretch of road (maybe 20 yards) that always has cars parked on one side so is just wide enough for a car and bicycle to pass at the same time. Next to this narrow strip of road is a sidewalk. Recently, a young mother was walking on this sidewalk while holding the hand of her toddler, who was walking IN THE ROAD. Cars had stopped at both ends, waiting for the toddler to leave the road. The mother, however, was in no rush to get her child out of the way, but kept saying "goed zo, goed zo" over and over. I was stunned. This child will now grow up believing it has the power to stop traffic. If it survives its first solo encounter with a busy intersection, it will one day become a Dutch teenager who thinks it is fine to block traffic while it chats on its cellphone (yes, I've seen this a few times) or ride four-abreast (more times than I can remember) or even cycle directly towards you on the wrong side of the road because it wants to turn down a side road and it can't understand the concept of waiting until you have passed (groan!).
The simple fact is that in my 8 years in the Netherlands I have yet to meet a humble Dutch person. I think the word has been struck for their language. They believe they know everything about everything and I have never heard one of them apologize, ever (perhaps it happens but I have never witnessed it).
I always enjoy watching two Dutch people discussing something. There is no give-and-take. They just take turns saying what they believe with absolute confidence. They can contradict each other. They can both be 100% wrong. This does not worry them in the slightest. I call this the "Centre-of-the-universe Syndrome".
Of course I have met some really nice Dutch people. Like the wonderful old couple who spotted me walking along with a flat tire one day. They promptly called me over, helped me change the tire, and gave me a big glass of orange juice before sending me on my way. Which is why I don't like to generalize.
He's right.
I cannot remember apologies being common OR gracious in Dutch (actually, I cannot remember apologies in Dutch, period), and the actual verbs used for 'apology' are not exactly humble acknowledgements of error.
Verontschuldigen literally means to disavow responsibility, excuseren means to excuse oneself (frequently in the sense of withdrawing from further comment), spijt betuigen means to express regret (though not accepting blame), schuld toegeven means to admit guilt (though not regret). The person using these verbs is the focus of the action, not the one to whom an apology would be due. It is, if you will, the guilty party seizing control of the discourse, and jumping back into the limelight.
I also particularly enjoyed this statement: "I always enjoy watching two Dutch people discussing something. There is no give-and-take. They just take turns saying what they believe with absolute confidence. They can contradict each other. They can both be 100% wrong. This does not worry them in the slightest. "
That davka matches my experience debating with Dutch people. It makes for interesting conversations. And also eventually great enmity.
Paul, thanks for dropping by, and especially for your comment. You framed it in a way I had not yet considered, but what you said makes complete sense.
I hope to see you here again.
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A LACK OF PROPELLANT
Rereading my old posts reminds me that I used to be immoderate. And at times over the top. I've calmed down and grown up since then. Now...
6 comments:
Everything that Paul observes about the Dutch - reflects my own experience of Germans.
Today in a store in Germany I observed how 4 moronic Turkish youths tried to hassle a less moronic German youth. "Heh Alte was hast Du, hast D' n' Probleme?"
Their grandfathers massacred Armenians - his grandfather might have massacred Jews....
I reckon
the problem
lies within the genitalia
2 much f*ckin testerone on the street my man!
And if that is double-Dutch or good 'ole boy - what's the difference?
Abraham was prepared to do as he was bid - he did not say - "heh Alte was willst Du?"
Thus the Blogmeesters dumpin on the Dutch (en-masse) has reached "curiosity level"
move on my man!
Graham
Ach, clearly someone has a bug up his donkey about the Dutch. This is what happens when you are always unbelonging. Likewise those Turkish kids ragging on the native. They were probably born there, of parents who had been there for decades. But still, not kosher Bavarian, eh?
---Grant Patel
Cheers B.O.T.H. Glad you appreciated my sentiments. I found your site by doing a search on "Dutch arrogance" which probably gives you some idea of my morning up to then. Reading your blog really cheered me up. I like your sense of humour.
Graham has a good point. My Dutch colleague (who sincerely believes he knows everything) thinks Germans are arrogant. My one German colleague thinks the Dutch are arrogant. A relative of mine living in the US thinks Americans are arrogant. The single most arrogant person I have ever met was an Englishman. So who knows?
As an aside: I worked in Belgium for a spell and the people I got along the best with* were from Holland.
-Paul
(*I think I just heard my English teacher turn in her grave).
Interesting stuff about the Dutch. I guess we are all victims of our programming. Useless to say something about the US because, given its size, it's all true. The only thing that can be said is that if we look at the quality of the Declaration of Independence and the people behind it and compare that with the current US leadership, even white trash republican trailer trash van see that something went wrong. The US is a very masculine, aggressive society at the end of its lifecycle. I'll be happy to send food parcels next Chistmas to help the yanks survive the winter, like the Indians did a long time ago. Having said that, we all know what happened to the Indians.... 70% of Americans go to church. Unfortunately - one judges the tree by its fruits - . It is the American fruits I worry most about. Especially the way these fruits intoxicate our youth through the media.
Then, on the other hand, I might by a house in Florida now just to find out how it is to live in a 'gated community'. A concept that is doing well in other parts of the world where there is a WASP background (South Africa). Yes, my friends, in the end it was Calvinism (what you call Presbyterianism) that destroyed the US. Blame it on the first generation Americans: could that be the Dutch?
Calvinism? Laughable! Calvinists don't give a shit what other people do, as long as you don't do it in public!
That's why Holland is so tolerant. You're all going to hell, so it does not matter what shit you're doing. Only 144,000 of the select will enter the big pearly gates, the rest are sinners and doomed.
It's called predestinationism.
I'll blame the Methodists, if any religious group must be blamed. Those pricks are insufferable!
It's probably the fault of the Greeks.
Everything bad in Europe is because of them.
Money problems. Banker's bile. Mounting debt. Corruption. Democracy.
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