Among a number of commenters the idea is that the US administration's fight with the Israeli government over 1600 homes in Ramat Shlomo will harm Obama, because congressmembers and others will challenge the wisdom of treating America's closest ally in the war on terror in such a fashion, especially as regards majority Jewish neighborhoods in a city which has been Jewish since time immemorial. Certainly in several publications, and on numerous right-wing blogs, Obama's loyalty and intelligence are being questioned, and 'pundits' are opining that he has done irreparable damage to our standing and will have to back down red-faced under pressure from all of god-fearing America.
This, they say, proves that Obama is out of touch. As are Hillary and Joe.
That idea, of course, is utter poppycock.
It's actually far more likely to backfire on Jews, Israel, and everyone who supports either or both.
There is already a perception that Americans are in danger in the Middle-East because of Israel and the Jews. A recent briefing by General Petraeus stressed the very real adverse impact of America seeming to be ineffective as regards Israeli actions - the Arabs feel that the US dares not do anything without Israeli approval, and is powerless to stop Israel from doing whatever it wants.
Here in the United States there are plenty of people who will play this up as "them damn Jews" spitting in the president's face. Any actions by politicals (congress or whoever) to get the administration to back down will be seen by a large number of people as the infamous Jewish lobby attempting to steamroll the US government.
That interpretation will come from both left and right.
Here in California, it will come from the left.
Which is almost overwhelmingly composed of ideological Jew-haters.
How will it benefit Israel if her strongest supporters among the American people (and in Europe) end up being called traitors and agents of a foreign power?
How will it benefit Israel if Jews are seen as intransigent supporters of all other Jews, and only of Jews?
How will it benefit Israel if the remaining Jews in golus feel that aliyah is perhaps not so strange an idea?
I'm sure a large number of Evangelicals, on the other hand, would be overjoyed if more Jews emigrate to Israel..... that will hasten the end-times and the last days.
Perhaps we should remember that it is ONLY because those pesky Jews aren't all in Israel that the virtuous select of god have not yet been uplifted and the dead haven't risen.
The far left, of course, will be overjoyed if more Jews leave irrespective of apocalyptic auto-eroticism. They're kind of like Europeans that way.
Being Jewish, or an Israel-supporter, means being politically incorrect.
It's like having an American accent in Europe - it starts fights.
I often wish that Israel's leftwing and rightwing would realize that what comes out of their mouths has effects far beyond their blinkered and obsequious fan-circles.
And yes, it should not be that way - but there are 300 million Americans, nearly double that number of people in Europe, and triple that in the Muslim world. There are less than eight million people in Israel.
Clearly the obsession with Israel magnifies how the utterances and decisions made in that tiny country are perceived, and adds to the exaggeration and misinterpretation with which we are all familiar. That's just the way it is.
Entirely separate from which, a fight between conservative Israel-supporters and the president will strengthen both J-Street and the Arab-lobby, and encourage them to push the envelope.
Neither of which are eventualities I wish to see happen.
I shall not even speak of the shot in the arm this gives to all the European haters of Israel.
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PERSIMMONS AND YAUCHOI
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20 comments:
Sound advice. I do not delude myself into believing that we have any sort of leverage. We are tolerated better here in this country than practically anywhere else, but the key word here is "tolerated." I don't pretend to know why we are discriminated against with such zeal, but there it is.
(I am always a bit amused when co-religionists with absolutely no sense of history react with alarm and confusion when they see neighbors and other civilized folk espousing both soft and hard bigotry. I may be more pessimistic, but at least I have advance warning, right?)
That said, I am a loyal citizen, taxpayer and contributing member of society -- proud to be an American, really (I say this with no trace of irony). Accordingly, I did dispatch a largely deferential, but pointed, note to the president, requesting that he keep the situation in perspective. My personal view is that the Administration's reaction was calculated to mollify Israel's opponents. Sadly, it only serves to embolden enemies of peace.
David Frum has an interesting column here, which proposes that inconclusive peace processes and cease fires only serve to prolong conflict, not shorten them:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/15/frum.mideast.peace/
Let's lance this boil once and for all (you know all about lancing boils, right?)
As an absolute cynic, I have to think that both the announcement to build 1600 more homes, and the reaction to that announcement, are distractions and deliberate sabotage.
The announcement to build could not have been times worse. If anything, it likely was calculated to nix serious talks, inflame tensions, make a point very bluntly, and confound the issues.
If Biden had not reacted, and if the US administration had not gone off the deep end, neither the Europeans nor the Arabs would believe that the Americans were honest intermediaries or even interested in achieving any kind of settling of the dispute.
Now that Netanyahu has mollified his side, and thus further upset the Obama administration, the only thing that can be said to have been achieved is that Netanyahu has saved his cabinet at the expense of the Americans.
Consequently, the relationship with the Obama administration is strained, the Americans have been either disincentivized to mediate, OR to see things from an Israeli point of view.
The Arabs have been encouraged, on the other hand. They see a weakness in the relationship that they can exploit.
If Israel can be said to be interested in peace, that cannot be said for the Arabs.
They do not really want peace, they have never really wanted peace. Not if it means giving up their demands for more than Israel can or should yield.
The Arabs will hope that they can exploit the rift to adversely affect Israel. The US will be pressured into making concessions by other regimes in that area in order to advance US goals. And the Europeans will keep bringing up the 1600 homes as examples of why Israel has to be strong-armed, and how it shows that Israel is more recalcitrant by far than the Arabs - "see, see, they keep sabotaging any chance of peace!".
Because of these 1600 homes, it is more likely than before that our government will chuck Israeli considerations aside in order to keep our stand-down and withdrawal from Irak on track and uneventful.
If, as we hope, Irak remains on our side afterwards, that too will come at a cost for Israel.
And, to put it bluntly, the only thing that may change matters is if, entirely without provocation, Syria decides to launch an attack.
That would discredit the Arabs, and rebuild a measure of support for Israel.
Iran launching an attack, however, would not have nearly the same effect. It would be explained by many as Iran acting on years of Israeli provocation and threat.
I'm sure, by the way, that I am not the only Israel supporter who wishes that Israel's wars did not always end in a half-assed cease-fire. A clear and complete victory would, as the author of the article to which you posted the link argues, go a hell of a long way towards creating stability.
A clear and complete victory would, as the author of the article to which you posted the link argues, go a hell of a long way towards creating stability.
Bibi not being a complete twit would help, too.
clear, well argued and cognizant of historical context as always. yet, i detect an undercurrent of "israel is helpless without american support".
do you believe this?
because i would argue that, insofar as there may be some truth value (in the short term) to this kind of thinking, america is even more helpless without their multilingual, ass-kissing, weapons-testing "dirt aircraft carrier" in the middle east. and i have serious doubts as to the value to america of iraq as an ally. and i think the modern russians are much better businissmen than they were communists.
yet, i detect an undercurrent of "israel is helpless without american support".
do you believe this?
No. Israel can ably defend itself.
But I would far far rather that Israel had American support. And that those of us with our backs to the wall here in ultra-lib whackostan weren't left on the defensive.
Clear issues, or Machiavelian subtlety. Not 'bull in a china shop' public relations bumbling.
Israeli politicians need to play to the American gallery, not just to the very small and limited segment that will ALWAYS support Israel, no matter what Israel does. The gut-reaction pro crowd is sweet..... but they aren't tied in to reality, and they have no clue what goes on on the street here.
Which is not surprising, seeing as they hardly ever join a pro-Israel demo, attend talks by Israel haters, read the voluminous reports back from Gaza, get inundated with photos of dead Palestinian children, or even listen to the sincerely misguided dogooders and church people who are constantly barraged by Sabeel, ISM, MECA, and the accursed Presbyterian crypto-bigots.
Realism, as always, is a far better thing than constant chants of 'go team' and blue and white pompoms.
without their multilingual, ass-kissing, weapons-testing "dirt aircraft carrier"
True. But when the captain of that aircraft carrier cocks a snook at the US president, and does it so crudely and publicly, that doesn't help anyone.
i have serious doubts as to the value to america of iraq as an ally.
You would be insane if you did not have those doubts. But for a number of years at least everyone in Washington and Baghdad will pretend that the relationship is working. It's a question of image and national ("governmental") honour. We're pretending we didn't put our foot in it, they are pretending that they have benefitted in some intangible idealistic way from our stumbling stupidity.
Then, just like the Western Europeans, they'll start lecturing us and sabotaging us.
With a bit of luck, we'll have no interests in their shithole by that time. Or too few to make a difference.
Bibi not being a complete twit would help, too.
That, I think, is the root of the current problem.
The presence of so much twittipooness in the halls of power never ceases to apall me.
Bush. Schwarzenegger. Sarkozy. Yeltsin. Carter. And Netanyahoo.
To name just a few.
Sh*t. Any moment now some leader is going to pull a 'Bananas' somewhere, and demand that henceforth the national language of his country be Swedish, underwear be changed five times a day, and that said undies be worn on the outside so that authorities can check and make sure the people are obeying that dictat. Woody Allen was a keen observer of the world.
It is a ludicrous notion to suggest that Israel should capitulate its sovereignty in its capital simply to appease its critics. This is what perenially gets Israel in trouble.
Even the United States Congress has recognized Jerusalem as the united, and undivided capital of Jerusalem. We will build where we like, when we like. American "support" is always conditional on the dictates of OPEC. And Patreaus' analysis that American soldiers are endangered because of Israel is also ludicrous at best. American soldiers are endangered by their inept leadership, broken chain of command, poor intelligence, and Secretaries of Defense that have not one clue how to manage a war.
Israel and the Jews are vilified no matter what we do. It is a far better thing to stand up for our sovereignty than to beg, bow, and scrape before the nations of the world. Nothing would be better for Israel than to be free of the chains of American aid. Israel should order the American radar station in the Negev be removed. The 3.8 billion Israel receives is a paultry sum in comparison to what she would make if free to make economic and military deals with nations that the US currently forbids her from making. The government of the United States is not a friend of Israel. It is a friend of OPEC. It arms, trains and funds the PA "security forces" that are almost entirely made up of Al-Aqsa Martyr terrorists. In December Fatah terrorists, members of those American trained forces killed a rabbi and father of seven with American M-16s. Not a word from the State Department.
Israel is already alone. Uncle Sam is not Israel's friend. It hasn't been for some time. Better that Israel stand apart without American money and truly act as the free agent it already is.
There is only one answer for Israel and Jewish people: the National Independence of Am Yisrael, free of American influence, and the end of the Arab occupation of Jewish lands west of the Jordan River. The total liberation of the people of Israel in exile, and in our land is the only answer. Now is the perfect opportunity for Israel to wean itself off the American poisoned teet that demands we be sacrificed to the Arabs.
America has sheltered us, and we are eternally grateful. We have helped make this country a success from the time that Chaim Solomon helped finance the Continental Army and Navy. But the time is fast approaching for Jews to start heading home. Regardless of what Israel does, or how we are treated outside it, this is a time of our redemption, and it is time to start packing our bags.
both: you say you would rather israel and america were buddies because the reverse would make things difficult for you and your hypocritical jewish allies in the u.s. you ignore the fact that for us zionists in israel, the comfort of jews in golus is not much of a concern. if they were to be made more "uncomfortable" by an israel/russia alliance replacing america's meagre investments, oil addiction issues and unwanted mussar with solid military backing and no "moral" judgements, we would welcome the influx of suddenly less hypocritical jews.-
devils advocate dept.
It is a ludicrous notion to suggest that Israel should capitulate its sovereignty in its capital simply to appease its critics.
There's a big difference between capitulating sovereignty and playing politics. Being right, while perceived as being wrong, is not advantageous. And further, unless Israel were to actually withdraw on the ground, no authority would actually be yielded.
Even the United States Congress has recognized Jerusalem as the united, and undivided capital of Jerusalem.
And every president since then has postponed adhering to that 'recognition'. Foreign policy is largely the field of the president and the state department.
American "support" is always conditional on the dictates of OPEC.
No, that's European support. American support is a marriage of convenience.
And Patreaus' analysis that American soldiers are endangered because of Israel is also ludicrous
Hardly. It's a factor that definitely plays. Americans have been endangered by our nation's backing of dictators, being on the same side as Britain, France, and Holland, our engineering coups, opposing the communists in China and Korea, bombing of North Vietnam and Cambodia, and our support of Israel. These are what the European left and the unaligned movement have always castigated us for. When we placed icbms in Europe, that too endangered Americans, though it benefitted the Europeans; they blamed us for being warmongers, and assaulted American travelers. Everything America does, because we are a resented and influential world power, will endanger Americans. So also our support of Israel. That said, not supporting Israel would not go very far to lessening the hatred and the danger. But our support of Israel is a particular sore spot in the Middle-East. Whereas our huge subsidies of the corrupt Jordanian and Egyptian governments, and our backing for the Saudis and gulf states wins us no friends (though it is immensely beneficial to our alleged allies in Europe, whose capitalists come along for the free ride).
Israel and the Jews are vilified no matter what we do. It is a far better thing to stand up for our sovereignty than to beg, bow, and scrape before the nations of the world.
Have you considered just quietly ignoring them? Must everything be done at the top of your lungs?
As for the rest of what you wrote, I shall assume that there has been a lot of coffee this morning on your side, and therefore ignore it.
Jonathan,
That's a very valid point. Not one I particularly wish to think about, other than to point out that anyone who has befriended the Russians has had a much harder time of it than those who have befriended the United States - and it must be said that Russia has often defined anti-Semitism more than any other country, whereas 'Semitism' is part an parcel of America.
As for hypocrisy, that is a fundament of democracy in action. Think of it as ideological opportunism. Can't have a pluralistic secular humanist society without it.
we would welcome the influx of suddenly less hypocritical jews.
And how, precisely, would that benefit me?
Jews and other minorities are necessary for a healthy society. Can't clap with only one hand, and if everybody is the same, there is no debate. Uniformity leads to stagnation and rigidity - just look at 'the old world'.
Yeah yeah, I know that everyone in Israel wishes more Jews would make aliyah. But that isn't a concept that I am vested in.
ok, you can play with them for awhile but we want them home before 11. with the car seats unsullied. :)
No!
They're NOT leaving till someone teaches the goyim how to make Jewish food.
Like Gefilte Fish
and Gehalte Leber!
Oh wait......
i'll tell you the secret, but it won't help you, as conditions no longer obtain in the u.s. due to wealth,nursing homes and miami.
take 1 jewish grandmother (or occasionally grandfather), 1 curious and possibly hyperactive jewish grandchild, and 1 dilapidated and possibly filthy kitchen which said grandparent knows like the back of their hand, possibly from living in it. mix together with a lot of love and a sharp tongue. if there are any new-agey bits of "health" information floating about, remove and discard.
leave them alone for one day, checking in at random and ducking whatever is thrown at you.
serve in variable much too large portions and enjoy. lay the compliments on as thick as you like, they'll go into the next batch.
*if the product is gefilte fish, don't bother checking in without a gas mask.
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