DISCUSSING GOLDSTONE

An e-mail discussion regarding the threats by members of the Sandton Synagogue to cause disruption and riot if Judge Goldstone attended his grandson's bar mitzvah.
I seem to be playing Devil's advocate in this conversation, but I just can't help it.
I'm sure you understand.


Crampbunny wrote:
"goldstone should be shunned in every way possible in the global Jewish community. he is a liar and collaborator who stoked the flames of the anti-semetic fires around the world. it's ironic that i included a mention of him i my latest piece that i did this morning before i even checked my email. i will try to incorporate goldstone in my latest weekly letter even though the subject matter is not about the goldstone report. "


ATBOTH:
" Good heavens. How very Christian of you, tayere Crampbunny.
A bar mitzvah is a family celebration.
Threatening to disrupt a family celebration because one disagrees with one of the attendees is just not done.
Would you disrupt a funeral because one of the mourners was someone you disagreed with?
If anyone threatened to disrupt a wedding or a funeral that involved my family, they would soon discover quite how much some of us are still firmly lodged in a mediaeval mindset. Seven centuries of inbred bloodymindedness is not easily unlearned.
And how much more so if their disruption offended those who are friends.
Threatening to disrupt a simcha - how precisely German!
"

Mademoiselle Tea Eggs:
"Apparently, this was the congregation's decision. "


ATBOTH:
" Then that congregation needs to have its collective head examined. Al pi halacha, they are wrong. And a cherem usually brings greater glory to the subject thereof than was intended.

We remember Maimonides, Spinoza, and Galileo.
Who were the bozos who banned them? Or have we already forgotten those names?

Further, to quote the article: "In an e-mail message on Friday, Judge Goldstone, who is a visiting professor at Georgetown University Law Center, said, “Because of the threat of protests at my grandson’s bar mitzvah, I agreed in discussion with leaders of the Sandton synagogue that in the interests of my grandson, I would not attend the services.” "

They put pressure on him. They were scared of unfavourable attention. What will they do when a Zionist speaker's attendance prompts the left wing to threaten a protest outside their synagogue? Will they cave in? Will they put pressure on the outspoken Zionist to please shut up and go away? Will they bend over backwards when the Israel-haters speak up?

I am impressed by how remarkably chicken they were, and how utterly lacking in a sense of propriety and dignity, not to mention plain old-fashioned derech eretz.
I would not want to be a member of the Sandton synagogue.
"

Grandmamustard:
"I'm with Crampbunny... & the congregation. People are responsible for decisions they make and every action has a reaction. Why is he any less accountable than people from ISM or other Jews who stand with Arab thugs while they yell "death to the Jews". Because he's a proper gentleman and judge? Why should he get a pass from helping the constant demonizing of Israel? Life isn't always "nice". And ask yourselves, if you were in the Warsaw Ghetto, who would you want standing with you: Maimonides or Crampbunny. I would choose Crampbunny every time. "


ATBOTH:
" It is not for a congregation to spoil a simcha or dictate which of your relatives you may associate with. It is also absolutely not the role of a synagogue to impose standards of political kashrus on your guests or your social life.

Aren’t we forgetting that it is a bar mitzvah?
Shouldn’t the boy who is becoming a man that day be taken into account? It's his event, his family and friends, his granddad.
Those who don't want to be in the same room as his granddad should either suck it up or stay the hell away. It's not their day in the sun, and it ain't about his granddad.

What example does it set to tell someone “okay, YOU can be here (sneer sneer snnnfff), but we’re going to ruin it for you if specific relatives show up (even if they are well-behaved and properly Jewish)”.

Under those circumstances, were it me that was tolerated, and my relatives (well-behaved, properly Jewish, and NOT the focus of the event) that pissed off busybodies in the congregation, I would make a stink like you wouldn't believe. So would you.

"Whaddya mean my uncle Larry and his (boy)friend the dentist aren't welcome?!!?? They're both Jews, and they won't be kissing each other while attending my bar mitzvah!!!!!!"

Next thing you know, they'll be barring red-heads, poor folks, Sefardim, and anyone who doesn't shop at Lenny Kohen's Kosher Meat Market.
"

Grandmamustard:
"He wasn't thinking of his grandson or his congregation when he allowed himself to become part of the demonization of Israel & Jews. He wasn't thinking of any kind of anti-Semitism his grandson might be subjected to because of his actions, was he? And he certainly wasn't thinking of all the Israeli grandpas who won't be able to go their grandson's bar mitzvah because of the harm his disgusting blood libel caused. What about all the simchas they are forced to miss? Comparing him to Spinoza or Galileo is absurd. They suffered for speaking truth to power. He is suffering for harming his own people & participating in a blood libel against his own. Sometimes people's hearts bleed for the wrong people."


ATBOTH:
" My heart ain’t bleeding for Goldstone.
I merely despise the congregation that stigmatizes his grandson.
It isn't their place to impose their standards on his relatives and threaten to disrupt his bar mitzvah. That they chose to do so is repulsive. "

Out of a sense of decency, and respect for the boy and his parents, and those of his kin who aren't objectionable, members of the congregation who disapprove of judge Goldstone should shut the F up.
If they cannot do that, the least they can do is find an excuse to stay away on the day.

It's not judge Goldstone's bar mitzvah. It's his grandson's bar mitzvah.
Their disagreement is with him. Not with the boy.
Putting pressure on judge Goldstone by threatening to cause disturbances at his grandson's bar mitzvah is blackmail, and those who did it are cowards and ethically crippled.

Imagine that it was your wedding - and your aunt Ruby told you that she would cause a scene if you invited uncle Morris. You would tell Ruby that it was your wedding, not hers. And you'd bring a cattleprod to the wedding just in case.

And again, will they cave in if a fervent Zionist speaks and the ANC left wing threatens to protest?
Will they opportunistically turn against someone else when the heat is on?
I think they will. They've proven themselves to be pushovers.
"


I have a suspicion that as a consequence of this e-mail conversation I will be told, firmly told, to never show my face in Lenny Kohen's Kosher Meat Market again.

Meh.

Pork.