YESTERDAY EVENING - UPDATE ON SITUATION IN THE LAND - JCC & ISRAELI CONSULATE
Nothing surprising was said.
The consul comes across as a likable and intelligent person, thrown into a role where he has to assure people without saying much. He choses his words with care. Forthright yet guarded. There are nuances.
The auditorium would have fit a much larger crowd. But there were plenty of people there..... most of us in our thirties or older. Plus some people who look intense. Or just tense.
Security is tight but transparently variable. Several people are patted down thoroughly, their bags checked inside, out, sideways and upside down. Electronics examined, batteries tested, pockets emptied. Me, just a cursory rooting around in my backpack without really examing anything (everything feels like a book, nothing has edges or a suspicious weight). Shook the box in which I keep pipes for smoking, didn't open it, or any of the pockets of the pack. I guess I just don't project a troublemaker aura. Either that or my snoot is recognized (it's a possibility).
Or maybe I smell.
Let's not go there.
The introductory words are finally said at around 9:20. Devorah who has been back from the land for 72 hours gives a short talk. Then the consul, who has only been back for 48 hours, comes on stage.
His talk is punctuated a various points with disruptive action by disagreeable people.
Disruption one: Three women chanting loudly about occupation and holding a Jews for a Free Palestine banner stand up in the audience, ten minutes after the consul had started talking. Boos, hisses, loud yells in Russian-accented English. Plainclothes and a rabbi finally pursuaded them to leave.
They were very strident.
Disruption two: Large hairy monster female stands up and starts yelling. There is vituperation. By this time the SFPD on hand, and she is 'pursuaded' out. Her incomprehensible exclamations echo down the side passage into the unknown, and muffle as a door closes.
Disruption three: Agent-provocatrice filming the disruptions, and her goonish male companion, are pointed out, confronted, told to get out. With sneers and gloats, they evaporate.
Disruption four: A man and a woman stand up and loudly declare that they are Jews and 'as Jews bla bla bla'. Loud long confrontation, followed by the police escorting them out.
Disruption five: Indignant blonde (?) proves herself a member of the troll contingent. Out.
Disruption six: Person of indeterminate gender stands up, becomes a wherewolf, and is escorted out by the cops.
During the question and answer period a few people turn out to have a bug up their chamor, not to say rhetorically blessed points of view, that, because of a surfeit of commas, semi-colons, parentheses, and codicilliary amendations and sub-clauses, prove quite unintelligible.
The consul bravely resists the temptation to call queries containing semi-colons half-assed, and answers the first clear part of the question.
Many questions are actually the ones that everybody wants to ask - simple, straightforward, to the point, and well-informed. The answers are to the point, and reasonably informative.
As we leave I recognize at least one person - an Israeli who is probably in some way connected to something. Who has certain habits that are recognizable as inculcated and precautionary.
Friday, August 11, 2006
Thursday, August 10, 2006
TAGGED! [A meme iz mir!]
OH NO!
The search for emes in the known universe (E-kvetcher: http://search-for-emes.blogspot.com/ ) has tagged me with a meme.
Now, a year ago I would not have had a clue what that means. I have since then seen the meme-tagging process in full bloom. And I think I grasp its zen-like verity. And beauty like the cherry blossoms in the cold wind of spring.
Or something equally interekshurul sounding, yes.
Book Meme
1. One book that changed your life?
Two books: Peppers: A Story of Hot Pursuits, by Amal Naj.
Indian Food : A Historical Companion, by K.T. Achaya
2. One book you have read more than once?
Ada, by Vladimir Nabokov.
The Torah.
3. One book you would want on a desert island?
The Ambonese Curiosity Cabinet, by Georgius Everhardus Rumphius.
Either in Dutch or English.
4. One book that made you laugh?Confederacy of Dunces, by John Kennedy O'Toole.
5. One book that made you cry?
I'm sorry, I seem to have a mental block - I cannot remember any such book.
6. One book you wish had been written?
"Crimson Blossoms: The Vocabulary of Headhunting Among the Tribes of Borneo".
One of the things which distinguishes the terminology regarding headhunting is the depth of metaphor and the poetic description of the process. Heads harvested from rival tribes are described as bright red flowers, potent batteries, powerful totems, beloved friends, after death companions, and guardians against evil. They are considered to bring fertility to both fields and women; great power to both clans and houses; prosperity, happiness, and the absence of disease. When the raiding party returns the heads are made welcome, chickens are slaughtered, the longhouse feasts, young maidens dance with the bloody heads and sing to them, and much rice wine is drunk from heirloom vats. Tomorrow the trophies will be prepared for long storage - cleansed of flesh, dried, polished, and woven into a wickerwork basket, for hanging in the rafters, where they will join the heads gathered in generations past, amid the boar-tusks and poison-bundles. And next year, we will do it again.
While headhunting was most avidly practiced by upland tribes, even the civilized lowland polities had memories of headhunting, which under certain circumstances would either experience a sudden (joyfully) bloody resurgence, or be celebrated in song.
Here's a section from a Tamarao poem:
Jale sapuwang, kulo sametek,
Banta masurak, bala maketek;
Prawo sapasig, nente nagara,
Taralangtuwa Radja Bahara.
Takot ki banye, karana amok,
Ratos tan ribo, salaksa rampok;
Pangkod maadja, parong malisek,
Lalang taura, daga tapitek.
Li-ig na li-ig, terem takaga,
Tanggat pusaka, karga haraga;
Mayat ri hamog, lalo tararok,
Banye kapala, gantong marantok.
"Flowing like cloud drifts (the mass of warriors) altogether
Battled with war cries, conflicted monkey-like;
The boats along the river-bank sands, (arrayed) against the state,
Under the leadership of prince Bahara.
Fearful was the multitude, because of the blood-fury,
One hundred, one thousand, ten thousand in berserk rage.
The battle-standards erect, the war-swords sharp-gleaming,
The long grass crimson splattered, blood gushing,
Neck upon neck (till at last) sharpness became dull,
Seizing magically potent ritual heirlooms, and precious items;
Corpses in the battle-fog, recently swirled in motion,
A multitude of skulls, suspended and knocking together."
Now doesn't that just about get your juices flowing?
7. One book you wish had never been written?
The Abu Ghraib Investigations - because Abu Ghraib should never have happened.
8. One book you are currently reading?
T'ang Shi San Pai Shou (Three Hundred Poems of the Tang Dynasty).
This is one of my frequent revisits. There are many editions of this classic anthology, some with commentary in modern Chinese, some with only explanations of the more abstruse words in a demotic literary lashoin. The poems that are easiest to understand have, not surprisingly, become well-known favourites over the centuries - among these are verses by Wang Wei, Tu Fu, Li Shang-yin, and Li Po (Li Tai-Bak). There is a clarity and conciseness to Chinese poetry which gives intense pleasure, and under the pen of someone like Li Po the phrasing achieves exquisiteness - though I'm still pissed at him for forcing me to learn a word of NO. USE. WHAT SO EVER!, that even in his day was impossibly archaic and eccentric, and it turns out that it referred to an alcoholic barley slurry used during Shang and early Chou as an offering in ancestral rituals; nowadays that word is never used, except when a) quoting that particular poem, and b) discussing odd cultic details from three thousand years ago.
Does Li Po really think that I'm going to have discussions on Dupont Street in which I'll be able to slyly slip in this word? Maybe I'll ask a shop-keeper for Pearl River Brand Mushroom Sauce, dried balutong, and his recommendation regarding rotten barley soup that smells like fruity liquid Limburger? He believes perhaps that late-night drunken conversations at Candy Wong's place are going to evolve into high-fallutin' literary discussions? Good heavens, man, what is your blessed T'ang era presumption of the richness of my life? What on earth were you thinking twelve centuries ago? Pretentious git.
9. One book you have been meaning to read?
Halachic Man, by Joseph B. Soloveichik
10. Now tag five people
Steg (http://boroparkpyro.blogspot.com/)
Labrab (http://labrab.blogspot.com/)
Balabusta in Blue-Jeans (http://www.balabustabluejeans.blogspot.com/)
Tafka (the artist FORMERLY known as Purple Parrot: http://goingslightlymad.blogspot.com/)
The Curious Jew (http://curiousjew.blogspot.com/)
This choice is based on both the chances of their taking the meme-tag, and on the likelihood that their reading material will contain some very interesting surprises. Oh, and the fact that they have blogs. That seems a crucial part of this.
Note: Others I would like to see take this up, in no particular order, are Respondingtojblogs, Chardal, ADDERabbi, Baal Habos, Charlie Hall, Classmate wearing yarmulke, Lipman, Margabriel, Jameel, Lakewood Yid, and a large numbers of others. Unfortunately I do not see them enthusiastically jumping all over this idea like fire ants on a cadaver.
But if they do, so much the better.
The search for emes in the known universe (E-kvetcher: http://search-for-emes.blogspot.com/ ) has tagged me with a meme.
Now, a year ago I would not have had a clue what that means. I have since then seen the meme-tagging process in full bloom. And I think I grasp its zen-like verity. And beauty like the cherry blossoms in the cold wind of spring.
Or something equally interekshurul sounding, yes.
Book Meme
1. One book that changed your life?
Two books: Peppers: A Story of Hot Pursuits, by Amal Naj.
Indian Food : A Historical Companion, by K.T. Achaya
2. One book you have read more than once?
Ada, by Vladimir Nabokov.
The Torah.
3. One book you would want on a desert island?
The Ambonese Curiosity Cabinet, by Georgius Everhardus Rumphius.
Either in Dutch or English.
4. One book that made you laugh?Confederacy of Dunces, by John Kennedy O'Toole.
5. One book that made you cry?
I'm sorry, I seem to have a mental block - I cannot remember any such book.
6. One book you wish had been written?
"Crimson Blossoms: The Vocabulary of Headhunting Among the Tribes of Borneo".
One of the things which distinguishes the terminology regarding headhunting is the depth of metaphor and the poetic description of the process. Heads harvested from rival tribes are described as bright red flowers, potent batteries, powerful totems, beloved friends, after death companions, and guardians against evil. They are considered to bring fertility to both fields and women; great power to both clans and houses; prosperity, happiness, and the absence of disease. When the raiding party returns the heads are made welcome, chickens are slaughtered, the longhouse feasts, young maidens dance with the bloody heads and sing to them, and much rice wine is drunk from heirloom vats. Tomorrow the trophies will be prepared for long storage - cleansed of flesh, dried, polished, and woven into a wickerwork basket, for hanging in the rafters, where they will join the heads gathered in generations past, amid the boar-tusks and poison-bundles. And next year, we will do it again.
While headhunting was most avidly practiced by upland tribes, even the civilized lowland polities had memories of headhunting, which under certain circumstances would either experience a sudden (joyfully) bloody resurgence, or be celebrated in song.
Here's a section from a Tamarao poem:
Jale sapuwang, kulo sametek,
Banta masurak, bala maketek;
Prawo sapasig, nente nagara,
Taralangtuwa Radja Bahara.
Takot ki banye, karana amok,
Ratos tan ribo, salaksa rampok;
Pangkod maadja, parong malisek,
Lalang taura, daga tapitek.
Li-ig na li-ig, terem takaga,
Tanggat pusaka, karga haraga;
Mayat ri hamog, lalo tararok,
Banye kapala, gantong marantok.
"Flowing like cloud drifts (the mass of warriors) altogether
Battled with war cries, conflicted monkey-like;
The boats along the river-bank sands, (arrayed) against the state,
Under the leadership of prince Bahara.
Fearful was the multitude, because of the blood-fury,
One hundred, one thousand, ten thousand in berserk rage.
The battle-standards erect, the war-swords sharp-gleaming,
The long grass crimson splattered, blood gushing,
Neck upon neck (till at last) sharpness became dull,
Seizing magically potent ritual heirlooms, and precious items;
Corpses in the battle-fog, recently swirled in motion,
A multitude of skulls, suspended and knocking together."
Now doesn't that just about get your juices flowing?
7. One book you wish had never been written?
The Abu Ghraib Investigations - because Abu Ghraib should never have happened.
8. One book you are currently reading?
T'ang Shi San Pai Shou (Three Hundred Poems of the Tang Dynasty).
This is one of my frequent revisits. There are many editions of this classic anthology, some with commentary in modern Chinese, some with only explanations of the more abstruse words in a demotic literary lashoin. The poems that are easiest to understand have, not surprisingly, become well-known favourites over the centuries - among these are verses by Wang Wei, Tu Fu, Li Shang-yin, and Li Po (Li Tai-Bak). There is a clarity and conciseness to Chinese poetry which gives intense pleasure, and under the pen of someone like Li Po the phrasing achieves exquisiteness - though I'm still pissed at him for forcing me to learn a word of NO. USE. WHAT SO EVER!, that even in his day was impossibly archaic and eccentric, and it turns out that it referred to an alcoholic barley slurry used during Shang and early Chou as an offering in ancestral rituals; nowadays that word is never used, except when a) quoting that particular poem, and b) discussing odd cultic details from three thousand years ago.
Does Li Po really think that I'm going to have discussions on Dupont Street in which I'll be able to slyly slip in this word? Maybe I'll ask a shop-keeper for Pearl River Brand Mushroom Sauce, dried balutong, and his recommendation regarding rotten barley soup that smells like fruity liquid Limburger? He believes perhaps that late-night drunken conversations at Candy Wong's place are going to evolve into high-fallutin' literary discussions? Good heavens, man, what is your blessed T'ang era presumption of the richness of my life? What on earth were you thinking twelve centuries ago? Pretentious git.
9. One book you have been meaning to read?
Halachic Man, by Joseph B. Soloveichik
10. Now tag five people
Steg (http://boroparkpyro.blogspot.com/)
Labrab (http://labrab.blogspot.com/)
Balabusta in Blue-Jeans (http://www.balabustabluejeans.blogspot.com/)
Tafka (the artist FORMERLY known as Purple Parrot: http://goingslightlymad.blogspot.com/)
The Curious Jew (http://curiousjew.blogspot.com/)
This choice is based on both the chances of their taking the meme-tag, and on the likelihood that their reading material will contain some very interesting surprises. Oh, and the fact that they have blogs. That seems a crucial part of this.
Note: Others I would like to see take this up, in no particular order, are Respondingtojblogs, Chardal, ADDERabbi, Baal Habos, Charlie Hall, Classmate wearing yarmulke, Lipman, Margabriel, Jameel, Lakewood Yid, and a large numbers of others. Unfortunately I do not see them enthusiastically jumping all over this idea like fire ants on a cadaver.
But if they do, so much the better.
RANTING......., VENTING......., AAAAH, MUCH BETTER NOW!
[Note: the text immediately below was sent to a small mailinglist whose members speak both Dutch and English. The text in Dutch underneath that was directed to a mailinglist whose members speak Dutch, English, and several other languages. The smaller list started as a subset of the larger list. Identifiers have been excised, spleen left in.]
Gentlemen,
I have just vented my displeasure at the pretense of neutrality and perspective that reigns on the "S" mailing list.
What particularly galls me is the intellectualized and disdainful sneering that both sides are wrong but Israel is of course ever so much more wrong. Nor do I appreciate the attitude that if only Israel weren't being stubborn there would be complete and perfect peace - which is tantamount to saying that if only Israel didn't exist, there would be complete and perfect peace.
Though that would be a complete and perfect peace acceptable to many on the list, it is not a complete and perfect peace that is acceptable under any circumstances.
I shall of course ignore the mailing list for several months. They can stew in their own politically correct effluvia.
I have just vented my displeasure at the pretense of neutrality and perspective that reigns on the "S" mailing list.
What particularly galls me is the intellectualized and disdainful sneering that both sides are wrong but Israel is of course ever so much more wrong. Nor do I appreciate the attitude that if only Israel weren't being stubborn there would be complete and perfect peace - which is tantamount to saying that if only Israel didn't exist, there would be complete and perfect peace.
Though that would be a complete and perfect peace acceptable to many on the list, it is not a complete and perfect peace that is acceptable under any circumstances.
I shall of course ignore the mailing list for several months. They can stew in their own politically correct effluvia.
---- - --- - --- - --- - ----
Lijst,
Hadden we maar met de Japanezen en Duitsers onderhandeld in plaats van hun te bestrijden!
Ten eerste zou ik nu geen Nederlands spreken, daar mijn familie nooit tijdelijk naar Nederland zou zijn gegaan.
Ten tweede zouden u allen ook geen Nederlands spreken.
Dit gesprek zou niet plaatsvinden - het zou niets eens kunnen plaatsvinden (hetgeen ulieden waarschijnlijk zou verheugen).
De suggestie van sommigen dat men immer neutraal mot wezen is een van die typische rot-Nederlandismes, zowel hypocriet als opportunistisch. Men kan niet anders verwachten van een handelaren volkje dat in nauwelijks vijf eeuwen bij elke oorlog zowel bankiers als wapenventers waren. Te beginnen bij hun eigen zogenaamde vrijheids oorlog - 1564 tot 1648. Zelfs wanneer zelf betrokken werd met de strijdende partijen overvloedig gehandelt.
Die hauteine afzijdigheid verklaart natuurlijk hoe het komt dat enerzijds Nederland de Amerikaansche reet likt wat internationale politiek betreft, anderzijds met liefde extremisten omhelst. Die pretensie van neutraliteit heeft propaganda waarde - het zal ulieden zeker baten.
En jawel, ik weet heus dat gijlui uzelve niet als allemaal Nederlanders ziet, en dat er ook veel te prijzen is aan Nederland. Wat dat eerst betreft, y'all gone too damn native, buncha Dutchmen wannabees and oreos, en wat dat tweede betreft, daar hebben we het hier niet over en ik vertik het om elke keer als ik kritiek heb dat te moeten verzachten met een portie vleijerij omdat ik een andere opinie dan de weldenkende sociaal bewuste meerderheid blijk te hebben.
Stroopsmering kunt ge uw eigen aandoen - met de keuze van mond, oren, of elders.
De suggestie dat iemand die of voor het leger kiest, of aan de oproep gehoor geeft, bewust denkt met wapens oplossingen te verkrijgen is van een dusdanig gore gehalte dat ik zowel de opmerking en de auteur ervan terzijde schuif. Daarmede heeft men niet alleen mijn directe familie een grove belediging toegediend, doch ook minstens een andere lijstlid, en tevens grote getallen die gediend hebben. Getuigt temeer dat suggereerder nooit familie in uniform heeft gehad, of tenminste juist die familieleden veracht (en men zou zelfs aan collaborationisten denken).
Go tell it to the graves in Normandy, you unmentionable!
Dat doen alsof men bijde zijden fout acht, wijl men wel degelijk het voor de verkeerde partij opneemt, in zowel ge-uite mening als nep-neutraliteit, is iets dat mij van vele verlichte Europeanen de strot uithangt. Wees verdomme eens eerlijk en geef gewoon toe dat men partijdig dan wel bigoot is - dat heeft Mevrouw ( -- ) tenminste gedaan. Ik weet waar ik aan toe ben met haar, en hoewel ik weiger ooit weer een gesprek met haar aan te gaan en haar gedachten-goed repulsief vind, kan ik wel degelijk haar forthrightness waarderen.
Ik weiger hier verder op de lijst over te spreken, en heb nauwelijks zin om zelfs verder met de lijst in gesprek te raken. Dat zal waarschijnlijk wederzijds zijn.
Ik ga in lurk mode wijl ik overweeg om de lijst op te zeggen. Na acht jaren heb ik weinig aan u, u evenveel aan mij.
Whatever.
------
---- - --- - --- - --- - ----
Update slash afterthought: the title on this post is factually incorrect, as I am not "much better" now.
I still want to clobber some pustulent Dutch-speaker whom I have never met in person with a baseballbat, still wish to kick some smarmy know-it-alls in their self-satisfied prissy rears, and still wish that at least two members of the list get food poisoning and lose multi-coloured fluids from both ends for up to a week.
Wednesday, August 09, 2006
WHO AND WHAT? FIND OUT HERE!
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Dutch-American.
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Leftie-liberal Dutch-American.
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Multi-lingual left-coast liberal Dutch-American.
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Compulsive reader multi-lingual Asian food eating pipe smoking left coast liberal Dutch American.
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Multiply hyphenated angry compulsive reader multi-lingual Asian food eating non-musically inclined veering in the direction of Judaism pipe smoking left coast liberal Dutch American.
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Errrm.....
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Bearded.
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Yes......, that's it........
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No, I am NOT the Papa Smurf!
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Dutch-American.
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Leftie-liberal Dutch-American.
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Multi-lingual left-coast liberal Dutch-American.
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Compulsive reader multi-lingual Asian food eating pipe smoking left coast liberal Dutch American.
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Multiply hyphenated angry compulsive reader multi-lingual Asian food eating non-musically inclined veering in the direction of Judaism pipe smoking left coast liberal Dutch American.
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Errrm.....
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Bearded.
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Yes......, that's it........
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No, I am NOT the Papa Smurf!
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Tuesday, August 08, 2006
REMINDER: COUNTER DEMO THIS SATURDAY (08/12/06)
PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY
Counter Protest the Anti-Israel demonstration at San Francisco Civic Center Plaza
Polk Street between McAllister and Grove, San Francisco
Saturday August 12th, 10:30AM
------------------------------
International A.N.S.W.E.R.will be holding a rally specifically to oppose Israel's efforts to defend its citizens and its territory against rocket attacks and kidnappings by the terror groups Hezbollah and Hamas.
San Francisco Voice for Israel/Stand With Us will counter the anti-Israel/pro-terrorism voice. It's expected to be the biggest anti-Israel event in Bay area. That's why it's so important for us to be there to show our strong support for Israel.
Our presence at these events has proven highly effective at making sure that the anti-Israel activists can not push their propaganda on the public unopposed!
Please join us! Details can be found at www.SFVoiceForIsrael.org
P.S. To answer the frequently asked question: Yes, SFPD is aware about our presence. Police will provide a safety zone. Also we have our own security team, ready to prevent any troubles.
---------------------------------------------------
Before the rallyMike Harris (StandWithUs/SFVoiceforIsrael) will be appearing on Ronn Owens' show on KGO AM 810 next Friday, August 11, between 10 and 11 AM.
Mike will be in a live, in studio debate against Richard Becker, West Coast director of International ANSWER, about the current situation in the Middle East.
Please be listening to call in support of Israel and against ANSWER's demonization of Israel.
Those of you without a radio but with computer access can listen live at http://www.kgoam810.com/home.asp
StandWithUs/ San Francisco Voice for Israel
www.SFVoiceForIsrael.org
www.StandWithUs.com
-----------------------------
Shomrei shabbes may want to overnight with friends and relatives who live in San Francisco.
Please encourage friends and coworkers to come - we'll need all the people we can get.
Remember to bring water.
And bring boffo signs.
Counter Protest the Anti-Israel demonstration at San Francisco Civic Center Plaza
Polk Street between McAllister and Grove, San Francisco
Saturday August 12th, 10:30AM
------------------------------
International A.N.S.W.E.R.will be holding a rally specifically to oppose Israel's efforts to defend its citizens and its territory against rocket attacks and kidnappings by the terror groups Hezbollah and Hamas.
San Francisco Voice for Israel/Stand With Us will counter the anti-Israel/pro-terrorism voice. It's expected to be the biggest anti-Israel event in Bay area. That's why it's so important for us to be there to show our strong support for Israel.
Our presence at these events has proven highly effective at making sure that the anti-Israel activists can not push their propaganda on the public unopposed!
Please join us! Details can be found at www.SFVoiceForIsrael.org
P.S. To answer the frequently asked question: Yes, SFPD is aware about our presence. Police will provide a safety zone. Also we have our own security team, ready to prevent any troubles.
---------------------------------------------------
Before the rallyMike Harris (StandWithUs/SFVoiceforIsrael) will be appearing on Ronn Owens' show on KGO AM 810 next Friday, August 11, between 10 and 11 AM.
Mike will be in a live, in studio debate against Richard Becker, West Coast director of International ANSWER, about the current situation in the Middle East.
Please be listening to call in support of Israel and against ANSWER's demonization of Israel.
Those of you without a radio but with computer access can listen live at http://www.kgoam810.com/home.asp
StandWithUs/ San Francisco Voice for Israel
www.SFVoiceForIsrael.org
www.StandWithUs.com
-----------------------------
Shomrei shabbes may want to overnight with friends and relatives who live in San Francisco.
Please encourage friends and coworkers to come - we'll need all the people we can get.
Remember to bring water.
And bring boffo signs.
Friday, August 04, 2006
NEGATIVE OPINIONS OF CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANITY
In a comment thread on Dovbear's blog (see this post: http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2006/07/another-of-of-our-very-best-friends.html ) I responded to a defense of Christianity by a visitor (RR).
Now bear in mind, bloggers truly like visitors. But there are visitors, and there are visitors..... And sometimes the visitor's comments veer so far off agenda that it is better to continue the discourse elsewhere -- such as right here, for instance. Welcome.
[My previous posting regarding this comment thread was here: http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/2006/08/false-religions.html]
Now, let's take up the conversation where it was left off the last time.
What follows in large Italic is RR speaking, the text in regular type underneath is my response.
RR: "Like South Park, I declare "shenanigan" on the notion that atheism is in any way "an acceptable belief", especially since many atheists are required to hold "unacceptable beliefs" in order to deny God. "
[B.O.T.H.] Actually, atheists are not required to do so - there is no agency requiring anything at all of them. They merely do not believe.
RR: " "(Deut. verses 11/26 through 16/17)" That is just more evidence that it is possible to be Jewish and Christian "just as long as you do not tell anyone", and it is CERTAINLY preferable to being a proud, publicly declared, and evangelical atheist or secularist."
[B.O.T.H.] Not from within the context of those verses it ain't. It specifically refers to holding or doubting Jewish beliefs in one's public expression. Though Christians may have their own interpretation (as indeed they do about nearly everything), those verses can only be seen in light of the long speech by Moses, at the end of his years, to the Jews who will enter the land, telling them what they must do. And what they must do is be Jews. The Torah is not a book of random rules - everything in it must be seen in the context of the rest of it. And there is no other context to it than a Jewish context. What non-Jews do with the text has no validity in a Jewish context.
RR: "Now be perfectly honest with yourself: people can talk about Christianity and Jesus as much as they want around you so long as they are being negative about it. Right?"
[B.O.T.H.] Wrong. I much prefer not to even hear the name of that man, far less listen to any discussion about him. Stating negative things about him would scarce qualify as conversation - in that hardly anything at all of his life can be proven, and it is doubtful that he even existed. Lashon hara about a mythical personage would be rather silly, don't you think?
RR: "If you desire to hold onto negative opinions of Christianity and Christians so strongly that you cannot countenance someone objecting to blanket condemnations and correcting outright untruths, well then your problem is not with Christianity or Christians but with yourself."
[B.O.T.H.] My opinions of Christianity and Christians are based on much exposure to and familiarity with Christianity and Christians. So much so that I feel I have had enough exposure and familiarity, and do not need more.
-----------------------------------
Charlie Hall (whose blog is here: http://charliehall.blogspot.com/ ) wrote this in the comment thread:
RR,
WADR, you clearly do not understand Judaism. Several of us have tried to explain some basic concepts to you and you have rejected them. In particular, there is NO Jewish group that is accepted as Jewish that accepts the idea that it is possible to be both a Jew and a Christian. A Jew who rejects part or even all of the Jewish tradition is still a Jew. But a Jew who actually joins a different religion is no longer considered a Jew for most purposes.
You don't have to like that. You don't have to think it makes any sense. You don't even have to accept it. But that is irrelevant. It is the way it is. We didn't make it up. And we aren't going to change it.
But if you can't accept it, please comment on other kinds of blogs than Orthodox Jewish blogs. We aren't here to debate religion with non-Jews. In fact, according to some of the most distinguished rabbis of our times, we can't -- it violates Jewish law. All we can do is state the facts.
I'm not anti-Christian. But many Jews are, in part because of the refusal by many Christians to accept Jewish teaching as legitimate. Please don't help to create more anti-Christian Jews.
Charlie Hall 08.04.06 - 2:48 am #
I am sorry - I just felt I had to gild the lilly, and expand a little on Charlie Hall's message.
I wrote:
RR,
One thing which Charlie Hall failed to mention must also be said. Namely that arguing from a pro-Christian point of view here does not advance our understanding of Jewish issues, and could well make those who are only marginally negative about Christianity much more so.
I will not claim for myself to be a halachic or hashkafic expert - but debating Christianity with you will certainly not make me one. Nor will it make you one either.
Again, I cannot speak for others here.... but you are certainly not the first convinced Christian I have encountered. I've already been exposed to the Christian points of view regarding these matters. I suspect (and correct me if I'm wrong, folks) that the others here have also been through versions of this before.
Lastly, I am not Rabbi Moises ben Nachman, and you are not Pablo Cristiani - is it not ridiculous to even have this conversation?
With each iteration I become more convinced that Christianity is utterly defective, whereas you merely become more convinced that I am wrong.
The Back of the Hill Homepage 08.04.06 - 6:14 pm #
The main reason why I've posted about these matters is because to a certain extent I needed to clarify my own point of view. Secondarily, of course, I often have this slightly tingly feeling in my solar plexus everytime that someone gets defensive about Christianity - it isn't like it's a religion in any great danger, except from its practitioners. Why then must one vociferously defend it?
Those who truly wish to delve into its mysteries can surely find a host of welcoming websites, libraries, and ritualariums, in addition to all manner of outreach?
Unlike Judaism, Christianity is a missionary religion. It has a marketing department.
Now bear in mind, bloggers truly like visitors. But there are visitors, and there are visitors..... And sometimes the visitor's comments veer so far off agenda that it is better to continue the discourse elsewhere -- such as right here, for instance. Welcome.
[My previous posting regarding this comment thread was here: http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/2006/08/false-religions.html]
Now, let's take up the conversation where it was left off the last time.
What follows in large Italic is RR speaking, the text in regular type underneath is my response.
RR: "Like South Park, I declare "shenanigan" on the notion that atheism is in any way "an acceptable belief", especially since many atheists are required to hold "unacceptable beliefs" in order to deny God. "
[B.O.T.H.] Actually, atheists are not required to do so - there is no agency requiring anything at all of them. They merely do not believe.
RR: " "(Deut. verses 11/26 through 16/17)" That is just more evidence that it is possible to be Jewish and Christian "just as long as you do not tell anyone", and it is CERTAINLY preferable to being a proud, publicly declared, and evangelical atheist or secularist."
[B.O.T.H.] Not from within the context of those verses it ain't. It specifically refers to holding or doubting Jewish beliefs in one's public expression. Though Christians may have their own interpretation (as indeed they do about nearly everything), those verses can only be seen in light of the long speech by Moses, at the end of his years, to the Jews who will enter the land, telling them what they must do. And what they must do is be Jews. The Torah is not a book of random rules - everything in it must be seen in the context of the rest of it. And there is no other context to it than a Jewish context. What non-Jews do with the text has no validity in a Jewish context.
RR: "Now be perfectly honest with yourself: people can talk about Christianity and Jesus as much as they want around you so long as they are being negative about it. Right?"
[B.O.T.H.] Wrong. I much prefer not to even hear the name of that man, far less listen to any discussion about him. Stating negative things about him would scarce qualify as conversation - in that hardly anything at all of his life can be proven, and it is doubtful that he even existed. Lashon hara about a mythical personage would be rather silly, don't you think?
RR: "If you desire to hold onto negative opinions of Christianity and Christians so strongly that you cannot countenance someone objecting to blanket condemnations and correcting outright untruths, well then your problem is not with Christianity or Christians but with yourself."
[B.O.T.H.] My opinions of Christianity and Christians are based on much exposure to and familiarity with Christianity and Christians. So much so that I feel I have had enough exposure and familiarity, and do not need more.
I am sorry (but NOT repentant) that it seems that it seems to you that I have negative opinions - I merely meant to convey that I have no positive opinion of Christianity and Christians.
-----------------------------------
Charlie Hall (whose blog is here: http://charliehall.blogspot.com/ ) wrote this in the comment thread:
RR,
WADR, you clearly do not understand Judaism. Several of us have tried to explain some basic concepts to you and you have rejected them. In particular, there is NO Jewish group that is accepted as Jewish that accepts the idea that it is possible to be both a Jew and a Christian. A Jew who rejects part or even all of the Jewish tradition is still a Jew. But a Jew who actually joins a different religion is no longer considered a Jew for most purposes.
You don't have to like that. You don't have to think it makes any sense. You don't even have to accept it. But that is irrelevant. It is the way it is. We didn't make it up. And we aren't going to change it.
But if you can't accept it, please comment on other kinds of blogs than Orthodox Jewish blogs. We aren't here to debate religion with non-Jews. In fact, according to some of the most distinguished rabbis of our times, we can't -- it violates Jewish law. All we can do is state the facts.
I'm not anti-Christian. But many Jews are, in part because of the refusal by many Christians to accept Jewish teaching as legitimate. Please don't help to create more anti-Christian Jews.
Charlie Hall 08.04.06 - 2:48 am #
I am sorry - I just felt I had to gild the lilly, and expand a little on Charlie Hall's message.
I wrote:
RR,
One thing which Charlie Hall failed to mention must also be said. Namely that arguing from a pro-Christian point of view here does not advance our understanding of Jewish issues, and could well make those who are only marginally negative about Christianity much more so.
I will not claim for myself to be a halachic or hashkafic expert - but debating Christianity with you will certainly not make me one. Nor will it make you one either.
Again, I cannot speak for others here.... but you are certainly not the first convinced Christian I have encountered. I've already been exposed to the Christian points of view regarding these matters. I suspect (and correct me if I'm wrong, folks) that the others here have also been through versions of this before.
Lastly, I am not Rabbi Moises ben Nachman, and you are not Pablo Cristiani - is it not ridiculous to even have this conversation?
With each iteration I become more convinced that Christianity is utterly defective, whereas you merely become more convinced that I am wrong.
The Back of the Hill Homepage 08.04.06 - 6:14 pm #
------------------
The main reason why I've posted about these matters is because to a certain extent I needed to clarify my own point of view. Secondarily, of course, I often have this slightly tingly feeling in my solar plexus everytime that someone gets defensive about Christianity - it isn't like it's a religion in any great danger, except from its practitioners. Why then must one vociferously defend it?
Those who truly wish to delve into its mysteries can surely find a host of welcoming websites, libraries, and ritualariums, in addition to all manner of outreach?
Unlike Judaism, Christianity is a missionary religion. It has a marketing department.
Thursday, August 03, 2006
SINAS CHINAM
Several bloggers have delved into Sinas Chinam (baseless hatred) over the past several days, in relation to Tisha b'Av (which, here in San Francisco, will end in an hour or so).
Sinas Chinam, it will be recalled, is posed as the stated cause of the destruction of the Second Temple 2000 years ago -- defined in this context specifically as baseless hatreds among Jews.
I do not take issue with that interpretation.
I shall instead bring up Mel Gibson. No, I won't quote what that man said - you've probably already seen the animated cartoon too, as well as the hysterical scene from South Park.
What I wish to quote is this: "Please know from my heart I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith."
Okay......
Dat's so nice......
Charming......
He says his faith tells him not to hate......
THAT'S THE ONLY REASON HE DOESN'T HATE THE JEWS??!!?
He can't come up with a single more convincing reason?
Anything?
Talk about baseless love.
This smacks too much of the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' line of thinking.
There is no acceptance there. Mere tolerance is perhaps too good a description. The sin and the sinner are probably still despicable, but he refrains from despising, presumably out of the goodness of his heart, and his sheer all flowers and butterflies Christian love for bugger-all everybody. His faith tells him not to hate.
Is that really the only reason he knows not to hate Jews?
That isn't very re-assuring, is it?
My dearly beloved blue-faced friend, those of us who think little of you do not hate you either, though we have, it appears, more than enough "base" to do so.
Except for those times when your drunken tantrums get you back in the public eye, we prefer not to think of you.
Just one question......
Who else do you love so baselessly?
And are they safe?
Please know from my heart I am not a bigot; innocent trust in the 'faith' of others goes against my realism.
Sinas Chinam, it will be recalled, is posed as the stated cause of the destruction of the Second Temple 2000 years ago -- defined in this context specifically as baseless hatreds among Jews.
I do not take issue with that interpretation.
I shall instead bring up Mel Gibson. No, I won't quote what that man said - you've probably already seen the animated cartoon too, as well as the hysterical scene from South Park.
What I wish to quote is this: "Please know from my heart I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith."
Okay......
Dat's so nice......
Charming......
He says his faith tells him not to hate......
THAT'S THE ONLY REASON HE DOESN'T HATE THE JEWS??!!?
He can't come up with a single more convincing reason?
Anything?
Talk about baseless love.
This smacks too much of the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' line of thinking.
There is no acceptance there. Mere tolerance is perhaps too good a description. The sin and the sinner are probably still despicable, but he refrains from despising, presumably out of the goodness of his heart, and his sheer all flowers and butterflies Christian love for bugger-all everybody. His faith tells him not to hate.
Is that really the only reason he knows not to hate Jews?
That isn't very re-assuring, is it?
My dearly beloved blue-faced friend, those of us who think little of you do not hate you either, though we have, it appears, more than enough "base" to do so.
Except for those times when your drunken tantrums get you back in the public eye, we prefer not to think of you.
Just one question......
Who else do you love so baselessly?
And are they safe?
-----------------------------------
Please know from my heart I am not a bigot; innocent trust in the 'faith' of others goes against my realism.
Wednesday, August 02, 2006
FALSE RELIGIONS
On Dovbear's blog (here: http://dovbear.blogspot.com/) there was recently a posting about our friend Mel Gibson, his drunken tantrum, and his defenders from two years ago.
[See this post: http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2006/07/another-of-of-our-very-best-friends.html ]
One of the commenters (a recent visitor) got a little upset about a perceived anti-Christian slant to both the blog and the comments.
Perhaps I'm just too jaded, I honestly didn't notice an anti-Christian slant.
Or maybe I'm just too used to the anti-Christian message, as in my environment Christianity is as much up for debate as someone's execrable taste in single-malt Scotch.
But the commenter, who goes by the nomen 'RR', not only got a little steam up, but also veered off into Christian theology of sorts.
[I should mention that Dovbear is not a Christian. I'm sure you already figgered that out, but it must be stressed. Not a Christian. ]
Often, communicating with dogmatic Christians is much like communicating with Communists and Fascists. They have the same linguistic rigidities, the same entrenched ideas, and the same legitimacy granted to certain ideas and definitions - just because their preprogrammed responses differ does not mean that they don't swim in the same swamp.
RR asked: "Explain to me how it makes ANY SENSE THEOLOGICALLY for it to be OK to be a secular or atheist but not a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Kabbala, or whatever? Since either way you are turning your back on Judaism."
Me:
Wellllll, let's give it a shot.
A secular Jew remains a Jew. One is a Jew through either being born of a Jewish mother AND niplet snipping, OR conversion and niplet snipping.
The Torah expresses that it is both a contractual issue (between a deity, the party of the first part, and a people, party of the second part, who serve as the paradigm of all peoples), and an issue of being sanctified - the people in question are to remain sanctified to the deity (which, upon intermarriage, is in doubt, upon conversion, utterly negated).
The niplet snipping serves as the token and reminder of the consecration of the males of the tribe to Hashem. If it was done with that intent.
A Jew is not a believer in a particular theology (although there is indeed a particular range of theologies which are desirable for a Jew to be vested in), but a theologically defined people.
Either you inherit it and stay with it, OR you convert to it and stay with it. With "it" being more a negative characteristic - not worshipping other gods, not following other religions - than a positive characteristic. One is required to hold certain beliefs - but UNTIL you prove that you do not, you are Jewish. Though sometimes just not a particularly good Jew.
A Christian, on the other hand, is absolutely not a Jew. Though he may be of Jewish ancestry. Adderabah, Muslims, Buddhists, or whathaveyous.
Now, you wanted a theological explanation. Theology is a symbol system. Which means that this either makes sense to you if you understand the symbol system, or it doesn't if you do not understand the symbol system. The symbol system of Christianity and the symbol system of Judaism are not the same, just so you know.
As regards Christianity having or not having it's very own virulent strain of anti-Semitism, I wonder what the Sefardim who went to Amsterdam thought of that? What about the survivors of the several pogroms in Germany (Rindfleish et seq.) throughout the middle-ages? What about the Polish Jews (Chmielnicki), Russian Jews (Czarina Catherine the 'great'), Ukrainian Jews (Petliura)?
No offense, my dear RR, but they probably would agree with Dovbear on that score. And yet consider his condemnation too mild.
There is much within the structure of Christianity that can and has been interpreted in an anti-Semitic way. Just as Communism has a version that is related to the Christian version, deriving ideas from many of the same sources and from the same cultural layers. Which the Muslims imported into their environment scarce changed - Mein Kampf and the Protocols both sell well in Arabia, and it has been conclusively shown that the blood libel did not exist in the Arab world until the French became involved in the Levant.
All of these things originate in the Christian world. None of them originated with secularists, or atheists, or humanists. The roots of all current forms of anti-Semitism lie with the church. Who may have inherited the anti-Semitist drang from the Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians - but Lordy did they expand upon it.
One might even argue that good old fashioned Muslim anti-Semitism has ceased to exist since the importation of the superior Christian version - something that must give many retrogrades a glow of pride, I imagine, though only the Klan and the Nazis would publicly kvell about it.
Oh, and just for the record, so that you understand where I'm coming from,
I am not a Jew, nor am I intending to convert. I am too much a doubter and a cynic to commit to any religion - I never 'had' Christianity, and refuse to 'have' anything else. Consider me however in many ways a fellow traveler - a Ger perhaps, sort of dancing in and out of the gate, and dithering around the outskirts of the city staring at all the interesting edifices.
[Oh, and the only thing I seek to convert people to is hotsauce. I love hotsauce. Hotsauce is great. Hotsauce saves. Hotsauce HAS saved me..... it made English food bearable while I was there. I have complete and perfect faith in the salutory quality of hotsauce.]
RR: "So, you would have me to believe that atheist and secular Jews are niplet splitting? And you just contradicted the "lost forever" nonsense, as all they have to do is convert back to and niplet - split, right?
------[cut]------
Now, if it is a matter of niplet splitting, then fine ... encourage Jewish converts to Christianity to niplet split themselves and their kids. As a matter of fact, I have read that Hebrew Christians are niplet splitting and keeping all of the other Jewish traditions as well. That would make them just as Jewish as any Marxist who lives his entire life laughing at, mocking, and living in rebellion to God, right?"
Me:
My dear RR,
Converting (back) to Judaism, for those born of mixed marriages, or those who accidentally fell into Christianity, would be a good thing.
But a belief in Jezus as anything other than the Graecified version of an originally Hebrew name (with or without a loaded and dangerous set of associations), is absolutely incompatible with Judaism - as Saint Paul understood well, which is why he aimed his propaganda at the Greeks and Romans primarily.
A Jew who combines adherence to the law AND a belief in Jezus is not a Jew, merely misguided.
A Christian who obeys the law is a Christian, with mighty strange habits for a Christian.
Jews for Jezus, Hebrew Christians, and other variations on Messaianic Judaism, are not Jews. There is indeed much in their makeup that may be considered Jewish. But al pi halacha they cannot be considered Jews.
Now if they completely give up their meshune ideas about Jezus, formally renouncing that error, and formally state their desire to return to Judaism......
It's not just hair-splitting. Believing in a god made flesh and separate as the son of that same god, along with a personal saviour who died and (was) resurrected, just cannot be fit into any form of montheism, let alone so specific a form as Judaism.
The deity is unknowable, indefinable. Christianity claims to know, and defines in several ways. The two cannot be reconciled, no matter how much material they share.
The pantheic insistence on fitting Jezus into ones beliefs is probably the major stumbling block. It is in multiple ways a heresy, idolatrous, rank superstition, and absolutely odious.
Sorry.
On a personal level, I also feel it too much a fairy-tale to take any part of Christianity seriously, other than the dictum that 'salvation is by faith alone'. I attempt to have faith that there is a divine. I refuse to go beyond that point with any certainty.
RR: "The Back of the Hill:You have done a great job of explaining why Jews reject the legitimacy of Christianity, but you have not explained why a mixed marriage between a Jew and a Christian is any worse than a mixed marriage between a Jew and an atheist.
------[cut]------
And then there is this issue: the incontrovertible FACT that atheism and secularism ARE INDEED RELIGIONS! They cause man to worship himself and to worship the earth and the things in it: humanism, naturalismm and mammon. THOU SHALT NOT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE (BESIDES) ME! There isn't a person on the planet who believes in NOTHING and worships NOTHING because we all know that the world existed before we got here, it will exist when we leave here, and that we have to cope with life while we are here. So "you can still be a Jew so long as you do not worship another religion" my foot."
Me:
My dear RR,
Firstly, Jews do not reject the legitimacy of Christianity. Jews do not accept that Christianity has any legitimacy to begin with. There is no question, therefore, of rejection. Do not take this as a sign of rejection.
Now then, an atheist can still be Jewish (in the sense of NOT being not a Jew), a Christian is by definition not Jewish (in that a Christian does not adhere to acceptable beliefs).
If that atheist was not Jewish to begin with, OR, as you put it, worships the earth and the things in it, then he is not Jewish.
There are some pretty horrific passages in parshas re'eh (Deut. verses 11/26 through 16/17) that make clear that the focus in Judaism is one of group adherence - private doubts, as long as they do not lead others astray, are 'sort of' accepted as an unnecessary evil, albeit one that might get one into hot water. The doubter can improve, learn more, come to a different understanding, or repent of his error.
But publically, one sticks pretty much to the party line, partially because one is an example to one's brethren.
I mentioned parshas re'eh in this context because it is one of my favourite bloody-minded parshayos.
Verse 13/7 If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is like your own soul will incite you secretely, saying let us go serve other gods, which you did not know of, and your fathers did not know of 13/8 of the gods of the surrounding peoples, close or far, from one end of the earth to the other 13/9 you shall not take kindly to him and you shall not listen to him, nor shall you be mercifull 13/10 Rather, you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death, and the hand of the entire people afterwards.
One could also argue that there are many other aspects of Judaism as practised that stress group ideology over individual intellectual variances, the examples are infinite.
But what must also be kept in mind is that there are many ways of understanding Torah and Talmud. A famous phrase (shivim ponim le Toireh) expresses it as seventy faces to the Pentateuch (and seventy, as you undoubtedly know, expresses the concept of a multitude). There is a flexibility there that is deliberate - one must find one's own understanding of Torah, merely absorbing what one is taught is not considered enough. Passivity is not intellectual or spiritual involvement.
Your assertion that secularism and humanism are religions is an interesting tack... as a secular humanist, I don't quite know how to respond. I am as flabbergasted as I would be if you accused me of being an alien from a distant galaxy.
I shall have to ask some of the commies I know how they worship the earth.... pray for me as I do that, as I'm sure I'll get slapped.
Lastly, three things:
1. Please stop using so much upper case. When I see nothing but majuscule, I feel that I am being shouted at. That merely gets my dander up.
2. "So "you can still be a Jew so long as you do not worship another religion" my foot." I do not worship feet. I am not perverse.
3. Rabbi Chananiah Ben Teradion said: "If two sit together and no words of Torah pass between them, theirs is the conversation of scoffers" (Pirkei Avos, prk 3 psk 3). With that in mind, what can be said of a conversation in which there is little Torah, but far too much of Christianity? I fear that arguing about Christianity (for or against) may make some of the other readers here unwell, especially as one should not know too much about the false religions, nor study them save for the purpose of defending against them. Let us, therefore, shy away from so much Jayzits. I too am getting a little unwell.
Now then, dear readers, please comment, and point out the holes in my ideas. Be my sounding board. Points of halocho and hashkofo are most welcome.
And feel free to keep in mind the famous line from Rav. Shakespeare, in Melech Richard Ha Shlishi: "A chizzuk, a chizzuk, my malchus for a chizzuk"
[See this post: http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2006/07/another-of-of-our-very-best-friends.html ]
One of the commenters (a recent visitor) got a little upset about a perceived anti-Christian slant to both the blog and the comments.
Perhaps I'm just too jaded, I honestly didn't notice an anti-Christian slant.
Or maybe I'm just too used to the anti-Christian message, as in my environment Christianity is as much up for debate as someone's execrable taste in single-malt Scotch.
But the commenter, who goes by the nomen 'RR', not only got a little steam up, but also veered off into Christian theology of sorts.
[I should mention that Dovbear is not a Christian. I'm sure you already figgered that out, but it must be stressed. Not a Christian. ]
Often, communicating with dogmatic Christians is much like communicating with Communists and Fascists. They have the same linguistic rigidities, the same entrenched ideas, and the same legitimacy granted to certain ideas and definitions - just because their preprogrammed responses differ does not mean that they don't swim in the same swamp.
RR asked: "Explain to me how it makes ANY SENSE THEOLOGICALLY for it to be OK to be a secular or atheist but not a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Kabbala, or whatever? Since either way you are turning your back on Judaism."
Me:
Wellllll, let's give it a shot.
A secular Jew remains a Jew. One is a Jew through either being born of a Jewish mother AND niplet snipping, OR conversion and niplet snipping.
The Torah expresses that it is both a contractual issue (between a deity, the party of the first part, and a people, party of the second part, who serve as the paradigm of all peoples), and an issue of being sanctified - the people in question are to remain sanctified to the deity (which, upon intermarriage, is in doubt, upon conversion, utterly negated).
The niplet snipping serves as the token and reminder of the consecration of the males of the tribe to Hashem. If it was done with that intent.
A Jew is not a believer in a particular theology (although there is indeed a particular range of theologies which are desirable for a Jew to be vested in), but a theologically defined people.
Either you inherit it and stay with it, OR you convert to it and stay with it. With "it" being more a negative characteristic - not worshipping other gods, not following other religions - than a positive characteristic. One is required to hold certain beliefs - but UNTIL you prove that you do not, you are Jewish. Though sometimes just not a particularly good Jew.
A Christian, on the other hand, is absolutely not a Jew. Though he may be of Jewish ancestry. Adderabah, Muslims, Buddhists, or whathaveyous.
Now, you wanted a theological explanation. Theology is a symbol system. Which means that this either makes sense to you if you understand the symbol system, or it doesn't if you do not understand the symbol system. The symbol system of Christianity and the symbol system of Judaism are not the same, just so you know.
As regards Christianity having or not having it's very own virulent strain of anti-Semitism, I wonder what the Sefardim who went to Amsterdam thought of that? What about the survivors of the several pogroms in Germany (Rindfleish et seq.) throughout the middle-ages? What about the Polish Jews (Chmielnicki), Russian Jews (Czarina Catherine the 'great'), Ukrainian Jews (Petliura)?
No offense, my dear RR, but they probably would agree with Dovbear on that score. And yet consider his condemnation too mild.
There is much within the structure of Christianity that can and has been interpreted in an anti-Semitic way. Just as Communism has a version that is related to the Christian version, deriving ideas from many of the same sources and from the same cultural layers. Which the Muslims imported into their environment scarce changed - Mein Kampf and the Protocols both sell well in Arabia, and it has been conclusively shown that the blood libel did not exist in the Arab world until the French became involved in the Levant.
All of these things originate in the Christian world. None of them originated with secularists, or atheists, or humanists. The roots of all current forms of anti-Semitism lie with the church. Who may have inherited the anti-Semitist drang from the Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians - but Lordy did they expand upon it.
One might even argue that good old fashioned Muslim anti-Semitism has ceased to exist since the importation of the superior Christian version - something that must give many retrogrades a glow of pride, I imagine, though only the Klan and the Nazis would publicly kvell about it.
Oh, and just for the record, so that you understand where I'm coming from,
I am not a Jew, nor am I intending to convert. I am too much a doubter and a cynic to commit to any religion - I never 'had' Christianity, and refuse to 'have' anything else. Consider me however in many ways a fellow traveler - a Ger perhaps, sort of dancing in and out of the gate, and dithering around the outskirts of the city staring at all the interesting edifices.
[Oh, and the only thing I seek to convert people to is hotsauce. I love hotsauce. Hotsauce is great. Hotsauce saves. Hotsauce HAS saved me..... it made English food bearable while I was there. I have complete and perfect faith in the salutory quality of hotsauce.]
RR: "So, you would have me to believe that atheist and secular Jews are niplet splitting? And you just contradicted the "lost forever" nonsense, as all they have to do is convert back to and niplet - split, right?
------[cut]------
Now, if it is a matter of niplet splitting, then fine ... encourage Jewish converts to Christianity to niplet split themselves and their kids. As a matter of fact, I have read that Hebrew Christians are niplet splitting and keeping all of the other Jewish traditions as well. That would make them just as Jewish as any Marxist who lives his entire life laughing at, mocking, and living in rebellion to God, right?"
Me:
My dear RR,
Converting (back) to Judaism, for those born of mixed marriages, or those who accidentally fell into Christianity, would be a good thing.
But a belief in Jezus as anything other than the Graecified version of an originally Hebrew name (with or without a loaded and dangerous set of associations), is absolutely incompatible with Judaism - as Saint Paul understood well, which is why he aimed his propaganda at the Greeks and Romans primarily.
A Jew who combines adherence to the law AND a belief in Jezus is not a Jew, merely misguided.
A Christian who obeys the law is a Christian, with mighty strange habits for a Christian.
Jews for Jezus, Hebrew Christians, and other variations on Messaianic Judaism, are not Jews. There is indeed much in their makeup that may be considered Jewish. But al pi halacha they cannot be considered Jews.
Now if they completely give up their meshune ideas about Jezus, formally renouncing that error, and formally state their desire to return to Judaism......
It's not just hair-splitting. Believing in a god made flesh and separate as the son of that same god, along with a personal saviour who died and (was) resurrected, just cannot be fit into any form of montheism, let alone so specific a form as Judaism.
The deity is unknowable, indefinable. Christianity claims to know, and defines in several ways. The two cannot be reconciled, no matter how much material they share.
The pantheic insistence on fitting Jezus into ones beliefs is probably the major stumbling block. It is in multiple ways a heresy, idolatrous, rank superstition, and absolutely odious.
Sorry.
On a personal level, I also feel it too much a fairy-tale to take any part of Christianity seriously, other than the dictum that 'salvation is by faith alone'. I attempt to have faith that there is a divine. I refuse to go beyond that point with any certainty.
RR: "The Back of the Hill:You have done a great job of explaining why Jews reject the legitimacy of Christianity, but you have not explained why a mixed marriage between a Jew and a Christian is any worse than a mixed marriage between a Jew and an atheist.
------[cut]------
And then there is this issue: the incontrovertible FACT that atheism and secularism ARE INDEED RELIGIONS! They cause man to worship himself and to worship the earth and the things in it: humanism, naturalismm and mammon. THOU SHALT NOT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE (BESIDES) ME! There isn't a person on the planet who believes in NOTHING and worships NOTHING because we all know that the world existed before we got here, it will exist when we leave here, and that we have to cope with life while we are here. So "you can still be a Jew so long as you do not worship another religion" my foot."
Me:
My dear RR,
Firstly, Jews do not reject the legitimacy of Christianity. Jews do not accept that Christianity has any legitimacy to begin with. There is no question, therefore, of rejection. Do not take this as a sign of rejection.
Now then, an atheist can still be Jewish (in the sense of NOT being not a Jew), a Christian is by definition not Jewish (in that a Christian does not adhere to acceptable beliefs).
If that atheist was not Jewish to begin with, OR, as you put it, worships the earth and the things in it, then he is not Jewish.
There are some pretty horrific passages in parshas re'eh (Deut. verses 11/26 through 16/17) that make clear that the focus in Judaism is one of group adherence - private doubts, as long as they do not lead others astray, are 'sort of' accepted as an unnecessary evil, albeit one that might get one into hot water. The doubter can improve, learn more, come to a different understanding, or repent of his error.
But publically, one sticks pretty much to the party line, partially because one is an example to one's brethren.
I mentioned parshas re'eh in this context because it is one of my favourite bloody-minded parshayos.
Verse 13/7 If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is like your own soul will incite you secretely, saying let us go serve other gods, which you did not know of, and your fathers did not know of 13/8 of the gods of the surrounding peoples, close or far, from one end of the earth to the other 13/9 you shall not take kindly to him and you shall not listen to him, nor shall you be mercifull 13/10 Rather, you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death, and the hand of the entire people afterwards.
One could also argue that there are many other aspects of Judaism as practised that stress group ideology over individual intellectual variances, the examples are infinite.
But what must also be kept in mind is that there are many ways of understanding Torah and Talmud. A famous phrase (shivim ponim le Toireh) expresses it as seventy faces to the Pentateuch (and seventy, as you undoubtedly know, expresses the concept of a multitude). There is a flexibility there that is deliberate - one must find one's own understanding of Torah, merely absorbing what one is taught is not considered enough. Passivity is not intellectual or spiritual involvement.
Your assertion that secularism and humanism are religions is an interesting tack... as a secular humanist, I don't quite know how to respond. I am as flabbergasted as I would be if you accused me of being an alien from a distant galaxy.
I shall have to ask some of the commies I know how they worship the earth.... pray for me as I do that, as I'm sure I'll get slapped.
Lastly, three things:
1. Please stop using so much upper case. When I see nothing but majuscule, I feel that I am being shouted at. That merely gets my dander up.
2. "So "you can still be a Jew so long as you do not worship another religion" my foot." I do not worship feet. I am not perverse.
3. Rabbi Chananiah Ben Teradion said: "If two sit together and no words of Torah pass between them, theirs is the conversation of scoffers" (Pirkei Avos, prk 3 psk 3). With that in mind, what can be said of a conversation in which there is little Torah, but far too much of Christianity? I fear that arguing about Christianity (for or against) may make some of the other readers here unwell, especially as one should not know too much about the false religions, nor study them save for the purpose of defending against them. Let us, therefore, shy away from so much Jayzits. I too am getting a little unwell.
--- --- --- --- --- ---
And feel free to keep in mind the famous line from Rav. Shakespeare, in Melech Richard Ha Shlishi: "A chizzuk, a chizzuk, my malchus for a chizzuk"
Tuesday, August 01, 2006
DUTCH POLL RESULTS: SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL DWINDLING
Results of a poll in the Netherlands conducted by TPS NIPO on behalf of RTL Niews.
Six hundred people eighteen years old and above were polled. Of these 24 percent voted for the Christian Democratic Appeal (centrist) in the last election, 22 percent for the Labour Party (left), 14 percent Liberal Party (rightwing by Dutch standards, centre-left by American standards). Of the remainder 14 percent did not vote.
59 percent believe the Netherlands should provide troops for a peacekeeper force, provided that peacekeeping is limited to rebuilding and excludes force entirely.
58 percent think Bush has not done enough to resolve the situation.
57 percent is 'informed to well-informed' regarding the current situation.
55 percent want the Dutch gov't to demand an immediate cease-fire.
39 percent are more negative about Israel than before.
33 percent 'supports' (has understanding for) Israel.
18 percent 'supports' (has understanding for) Hezbollah.
The article in the Volkskrant (in Dutch) can be found here:
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article335613.ece/Steun_Nederlanders_voor_Israel_brokkelt_af?source=rss).
Even though more people are said to support Israel (33%) than Hezbollah (18%), the degree of support is not mentioned.
[I expect that the support for Hezbollah comes from more committed and activistic sections of the populace than the support for Israel - Muslims, urban youth, and left-wing organizations, versus older and more religious people out in the provinces.]
'Houston, we got a problem.......'
One out of six Dutchmen backs terrorists whose platform includes erasing Israel from the map.
There is something very rotten in the Western liberal democracies.
.
.
.
.
Six hundred people eighteen years old and above were polled. Of these 24 percent voted for the Christian Democratic Appeal (centrist) in the last election, 22 percent for the Labour Party (left), 14 percent Liberal Party (rightwing by Dutch standards, centre-left by American standards). Of the remainder 14 percent did not vote.
59 percent believe the Netherlands should provide troops for a peacekeeper force, provided that peacekeeping is limited to rebuilding and excludes force entirely.
58 percent think Bush has not done enough to resolve the situation.
57 percent is 'informed to well-informed' regarding the current situation.
55 percent want the Dutch gov't to demand an immediate cease-fire.
39 percent are more negative about Israel than before.
33 percent 'supports' (has understanding for) Israel.
18 percent 'supports' (has understanding for) Hezbollah.
The article in the Volkskrant (in Dutch) can be found here:
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article335613.ece/Steun_Nederlanders_voor_Israel_brokkelt_af?source=rss).
Even though more people are said to support Israel (33%) than Hezbollah (18%), the degree of support is not mentioned.
[I expect that the support for Hezbollah comes from more committed and activistic sections of the populace than the support for Israel - Muslims, urban youth, and left-wing organizations, versus older and more religious people out in the provinces.]
'Houston, we got a problem.......'
One out of six Dutchmen backs terrorists whose platform includes erasing Israel from the map.
There is something very rotten in the Western liberal democracies.
.
.
.
.
Monday, July 31, 2006
AND PHARAOH SAID.....
One of my regular reads (The Big Pharaoh: http://www.bigpharaoh.com/ ) directed my attention to a delightful discovery, and a superlative but TOTALLY POLITICALLY INCORRECT blogposting by the Bacon Eating Atheist Jew ( http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/ ).
The posting is here:
http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/2006/07/moonbatterrorist-supporter-dictionary.html
Let me quote just a little bit...
MOONBAT/TERRORIST SUPPORTER DICTIONARY: ISRAELI CONFLICT EDITION
Anti-semite: Someone who hates Arabs.
Appeasement: A chance to show the world that Arab assmonkeys are good guys and mean no harm.
Arab Land: Every inch of land in the middle east, including part of Africa and probably Spain.
Cease fire: An opportunity for Arabs to replenish weapons.
Civilian: 1. Any Arab in civilian clothes. 2. Any Arab who was killed when used as a human shield.
Defending their country: Shooting missiles from civilian zones at civilians.
Disproportionate response: Anything a Jew does to strike out at a terrorist.
Freedom fighter: An Arab assmonkey terrorist, brainwashed to hate by an intolerant culture of hate.
Green Line: The border that Jews must retreat to even though it wasn't good enough for the Arab assmonkeys prior to 1967, the Arabs will magically accept this and live in peace even though their elected representatives state it will not be good enough.
Good Jew or Real Jew: A Jew who thinks Israel has no right to exist.
Holocaust: 1. Any war started by Arabs in which more than 10 Arabs were killed. 2. Something Jews are supposed to forget about. 3. Something that never happened, yet Jews have manipulated the "theft" of "Arab land" by conning the world into believing it did happen.
There's lots more.
If it doesn't at least crack a big smile all over your politically incorrect ponim, you don't have a sense of humour.
Please click here: http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/2006/07/moonbatterrorist-supporter-dictionary.html to read the rest.
And read some of his other stuff. It's good for you.
http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/
And also drop by the Big Pharaoh ( http://www.bigpharaoh.com/ ) for a different and much more balanced view of events in the Middle-East than I am capable of. Not that he's always right. But even when you disagree with him, you will find him a reasonable, rational, and witty man. The kind of man to whom you will want to talk back. The kind of man who makes the extremists on both sides look kinda subhuman.
One other blogger whom you can enjoy, but only if you read Dutch, is Abdelkader Benali (b. 1975) ( http://blogs.vn.nl/abdelkaderbenali/ ), who writes from Beirut. Benali is the kind of Dutchman who can actually see both sides, and the kind of writer who can express in spare prose paragraphs what others cannot evoke even in sheer floods of verbosity.
He won the Libris prize three years ago for his novels and plays. His book 'Bruiloft Aan Zee' (Wedding By The Sea) is available at bookstores - check the internet for availability.
The posting is here:
http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/2006/07/moonbatterrorist-supporter-dictionary.html
Let me quote just a little bit...
MOONBAT/TERRORIST SUPPORTER DICTIONARY: ISRAELI CONFLICT EDITION
Anti-semite: Someone who hates Arabs.
Appeasement: A chance to show the world that Arab assmonkeys are good guys and mean no harm.
Arab Land: Every inch of land in the middle east, including part of Africa and probably Spain.
Cease fire: An opportunity for Arabs to replenish weapons.
Civilian: 1. Any Arab in civilian clothes. 2. Any Arab who was killed when used as a human shield.
Defending their country: Shooting missiles from civilian zones at civilians.
Disproportionate response: Anything a Jew does to strike out at a terrorist.
Freedom fighter: An Arab assmonkey terrorist, brainwashed to hate by an intolerant culture of hate.
Green Line: The border that Jews must retreat to even though it wasn't good enough for the Arab assmonkeys prior to 1967, the Arabs will magically accept this and live in peace even though their elected representatives state it will not be good enough.
Good Jew or Real Jew: A Jew who thinks Israel has no right to exist.
Holocaust: 1. Any war started by Arabs in which more than 10 Arabs were killed. 2. Something Jews are supposed to forget about. 3. Something that never happened, yet Jews have manipulated the "theft" of "Arab land" by conning the world into believing it did happen.
There's lots more.
If it doesn't at least crack a big smile all over your politically incorrect ponim, you don't have a sense of humour.
Please click here: http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/2006/07/moonbatterrorist-supporter-dictionary.html to read the rest.
And read some of his other stuff. It's good for you.
http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/
And also drop by the Big Pharaoh ( http://www.bigpharaoh.com/ ) for a different and much more balanced view of events in the Middle-East than I am capable of. Not that he's always right. But even when you disagree with him, you will find him a reasonable, rational, and witty man. The kind of man to whom you will want to talk back. The kind of man who makes the extremists on both sides look kinda subhuman.
One other blogger whom you can enjoy, but only if you read Dutch, is Abdelkader Benali (b. 1975) ( http://blogs.vn.nl/abdelkaderbenali/ ), who writes from Beirut. Benali is the kind of Dutchman who can actually see both sides, and the kind of writer who can express in spare prose paragraphs what others cannot evoke even in sheer floods of verbosity.
He won the Libris prize three years ago for his novels and plays. His book 'Bruiloft Aan Zee' (Wedding By The Sea) is available at bookstores - check the internet for availability.
Friday, July 28, 2006
FLOYD LANDIS, AND THE EFFECTS OF VENEREAL DISEASE ON DUTCH BRAINS
The Labrab (http://labrab.blogspot.com/) in a posting about Floyd Landis and the doping allegation (see here: http://labrab.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-floyd-landis-is-like-jack-abramoff.html ), mentions that groups are often viewed in light of the actions of one individual.
This, of course, is something that Jews are particularly aware of, but black people and Asian-Americans are also often viewed darkly when one of their members strays.
Most Christians “remain” blithely in the dark about this tendency, and members of the majority ethnicity in any country almost always deny that they stereotype in this manner.
I doubt that their denial is much comfort to Arabs in Europe or Chinese in insular South-East Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines).
History shows that such stereotyping is more common, and leads to more bigotry, discrimination, and violence, than any other factor.
There is no evidence that society has unlearned this habit – and much evidence that in some benighted regions it thrives like never before.
Now, getting back to Floyd Landis.
I commented on Labrab’s blog that the Dutch coverage and commentary stresses that he is American, and has suggested that Americans are all dishonest cheaters and loudmouths.The Nether-rabble-commentators have really taken up that argument, and I'm baffled as all git-out how someone managed to link a nasty crack against Bush, and a reference to Israel, into a venomous spew about Landis and alleged American cheating proclivities.
You think I exaggerate?
Herewith a sampling from the commentary on the Weblog of Jan Marijnissen (http://www.janmarijnissen.nl/weblog/), underneath this posting http://www.janmarijnissen.nl/weblog/2006/07/27/wonderen-bestaan-niet/#comments :
“Ja, ik vond het toch al zo verdacht dat Bush-vriend Armstrong 6 x, geloof ik, de Tour won, terwijl hij kanker zou hebben gehad, iedereen die ik ken van zijn leeftijd die kanker had is allang dood, alleen al omdat er geen geld was voor dure medicijnen, en nu F.Landis. Het verbaast me niks.”
[Yes, I really did find it suspicious that Bush' friend Armstrong won, six times I believe, even though he had cancer, everyone I know who is of his age and had cancer has been dead a long time, merely because there was no money for expensive medicines, and now there’s F. Landis. Doesn't surprise me a bit.]
“Ik heb er tot nu toe mijn mond over gehouden, en werden de mensen die het hier al eerder op die manier zagen verweten “dat” zij er zo over dachten,ik ben het in ieder geval met u eens, de zogenaamde superhelden die door Amerika altijd maar naar voren worden geschoven, altijd moeten ze koste wat kost de grootste de beste de sterkste etc etc zijn over de hele wereld. Kotsmisselijk word je er van, en dat terwijl voor het grootste deel,alles wat ze bezitten gekregen en afgepakt hebben, om maar niet te spreken van zogenaamde amerikaanse uitvindingen die door teams van veelal buitenlandse mensen worden gedaan...”
[Till now I've held my tongue about it, and people here who had this view already were chastised that they though about it thus, (but) in any case I agree with you, the so-called super-heroes put forward by America always just have to be the best and the biggest etc etc all over the world. It just makes you sick (literally: nauseous to the point of puking), and that while most of what they possess was given to them or stolen, not even mentioning the so-called American inventions, made by teams of mostly foreigners...]
“Is er dan nog een ander soort amerikanen?”
[Is there even another kind of American?]
Bush heeft zeker ook alsmaar de `verkiezingen’ gewonnen na zo’n extra boostpil.
[Bush surely won the ‘elections’ after an extra boostpill.]
“Erg domme Amerikanen”
[Very dumb Americans.]
“Landis’ moeder…… wist dat miljoenen Amerikanen voor zoon Floyd aan het bidden waren.
Tenenkrommend, nu nog een interview voor Fox door Ann Coulter, en morgen keilen de Amerikanen weer massaal Franse wijn en frieten in de goot, ja, want kritiek op de oorlog van Israël hebben die Fransen ook al….”
[Landis’ mother…… knew that millions of Americans were praying for (her) son Floyd. Toe-curling – all it will take now is an interview on Fox by Ann Coulter, and tomorrow the Americans will again toss massive quantities of French wine and fries into the gutter, uh huh, ‘cause those French also got criticism about that war of Israel’s…]
[Note: Jan Marijnissen is a Dutch Socialist Party Parliamentarian. He is from North Brabant (a territory of particular interest to me), and, being a socialist, naturally tends towards the radical.
As such he is, like many Dutch, hyper-critical of the United States and Israel.
But unlike many Dutch he is not an idiot but actually very intelligent and well-read - believe me, that is extremely unusual. It also sets him apart from most of the prominent members of the Dutch socialist fringe. Many of the commentators under his blog, on the other hand…… rabid idiots.]
Now, here, for your wry displeasure, is a sampling from the barely literate morons who infest the comment-sections of Het Algemeen Dagblad (a major newspaper which can be found here: http://www.ad.nl/ - the article in question is here: http://www.ad.nl/sport/tour/article500829.ece ):
“Ach, die amerikanen trekken de lijn van de laatste jaren gewoon door. Enige verschil is dat ze inmiddels ook zo stom zijn om zich te laten snappen”
[Oh well, those Americans just do things in the way they've done them for years. Only difference is that by now they're so stupid that they get caught.]
“Weer een Amerikaan die de Tour niet clean wint!!!!”
[Another American who didn't win the tour cleanly!!!]
“Die nep-cowboy verbannen naar de grotten van torra bora.”
[Banish that pretend-cowboy to the caves of Tora Bora.]]
“Het is toch zo een verdomd achterbaks volkje ook hé, Carl Lewis werd op het gebruik van dope betrapt maar hoefde zijn medailles niet in te leveren. Maar het leven van Ben Johnsson ( Canadees van geboorte) werd door de Amerikanen onmogelijk gemaakt.
Armstrong heeft, dat moge nu wel overduidelijk zijn, dope gebruikt om de Tour 7 keer te winnen. Volgens de Amerikanen heeft Armstrong de tour op klasse gewonnen en niets dope !
Tsja, wie herinnert zich niet de rel omtrent Pieter van Hoogenband toen hij de Amerikaanse topfavoriet in Sydney versloeg ? Volgens de Amerikanen was het onmogelijk om zonder dope zo een puike prestatie neer te zetten. Af en toe zijn de Yankees net als kinderen.”
[They're such a damned sleazy nation, eh, Carl Lewis was also caught using dope but didn't have to turn in his medals. But the life of Ben Johnson (Canadian by birth) was ruined by the Americans. Armstrong, as should be abundantly clear by now, used dope in order to win the tour seven times. According to the Americans, he won on his strengths and no dope! Well, who doesn't remember the racket when Pieter van Hoogenband whupped the American favorite in Sydney? Per the Americans it was impossible without dope to deliver such a splendid achievement. Now and then they're just like children.}]
“Godvrezende Amerikaan beduvelt de hele kluit en gaat er met de tourzege aan de haal ( tenminste dat dacht hij). Het kan bijna niet anders, immers zagen wij ook niet zijn eveneens Godvrezende President voor het oog van de hele wereld om Gods zegen en steun vragen teneinde met succes Saddams nucleaire arsenaal te kunnen vernietigen.”
[God-fearing American screws the lot and makes off with the tour victory (at least he thought he did). Hardly possible otherwise, after all did we not see his equally God-fearing president, in full view of the whole world, ask for God's blessing and support for success in destroying Saddam's nuclear arsenal.]
“Ja,Greg Lemond heeft ook zijn 3 zeges niet schoon gereden,toen Amstrong nou dus malle pietje Flooyd Landis,als ik de Tour directie was,boycot al die Yankee Doodles,ze gebruiken doping als snoepgoed in de states!”
[Yeah, Greg Lemond also didn't achieve his three victories cleanly, then Armstrong though now the moron Floyd Landis, if I were in charge of the tour, boycott all those Yankee Doodles, they use doping like it was candy in the States.]
“De laatste 20 jaar 11x een Amerikaanse tourwinnaar. Terwijl ze daar amper weten wat wielrennen is.
Je ziet ze het hele jaar niet en ineens staan ze er omdat ze zich zogenaamd maar op één koers richten. De Tour de France.
Ammahoela, 49 weken experimenteren met verboden middeltjes en hoe ze de UCI kunnen misleiden en dan alle Europeanen naar huis fietsen."
[The past twenty years eleven times an American winner of the tour. While they have scarcely a clue what bicycle racing is. The whole year they're nowhere, and then all of a sudden they're there, because they claim to gear themselves for just one race - the Tour De France. Pull the other one, forty nine weeks of experimenting with illegal substances and how to fool the UCI, then bulldozing all the Europeans.]
Well, what can I say about my fellow Dutch-speakers?
All I can offer is that not all of them are stark-raving mad, and that as with any group the percentage who are half-way capable of rational thought are outnumbered by cretins. And in this case, unfortunately, outnumbered by a huge majority.
But some of them are, believe it or not, actually quite decent folk.
Even though many (most) have not fully realized their potential, gotten an education, read much, developed any sense, or achieved anything all.
I had, long ago, thought much better of them – but then I thought better of everybody at that stage in my life. I remain optimistic that human societies will improve (scant evidence of that in Europe, but never mind), and there are always bright spots. One can but hope.
Regarding the Dutch tendency towards fevered pronouncements and insane illogic, as evinced by the statements cited above, the two most likely explanations are syphilis and mercury-poisoning. Both of those eventually affect the brain. And I know that at least in parts of the country the water is clean, so not all of them have mercury-poisoning……….
I have no explanation for their hatred of Americans. It is totally baffling, especially as they consume so much that is American, and ape Americans in so many ways.
Perhaps it is a bizarre form of self-loathing.
Tzarich iyun.....
This, of course, is something that Jews are particularly aware of, but black people and Asian-Americans are also often viewed darkly when one of their members strays.
Most Christians “remain” blithely in the dark about this tendency, and members of the majority ethnicity in any country almost always deny that they stereotype in this manner.
I doubt that their denial is much comfort to Arabs in Europe or Chinese in insular South-East Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines).
History shows that such stereotyping is more common, and leads to more bigotry, discrimination, and violence, than any other factor.
There is no evidence that society has unlearned this habit – and much evidence that in some benighted regions it thrives like never before.
Now, getting back to Floyd Landis.
I commented on Labrab’s blog that the Dutch coverage and commentary stresses that he is American, and has suggested that Americans are all dishonest cheaters and loudmouths.The Nether-rabble-commentators have really taken up that argument, and I'm baffled as all git-out how someone managed to link a nasty crack against Bush, and a reference to Israel, into a venomous spew about Landis and alleged American cheating proclivities.
You think I exaggerate?
Herewith a sampling from the commentary on the Weblog of Jan Marijnissen (http://www.janmarijnissen.nl/weblog/), underneath this posting http://www.janmarijnissen.nl/weblog/2006/07/27/wonderen-bestaan-niet/#comments :
“Ja, ik vond het toch al zo verdacht dat Bush-vriend Armstrong 6 x, geloof ik, de Tour won, terwijl hij kanker zou hebben gehad, iedereen die ik ken van zijn leeftijd die kanker had is allang dood, alleen al omdat er geen geld was voor dure medicijnen, en nu F.Landis. Het verbaast me niks.”
[Yes, I really did find it suspicious that Bush' friend Armstrong won, six times I believe, even though he had cancer, everyone I know who is of his age and had cancer has been dead a long time, merely because there was no money for expensive medicines, and now there’s F. Landis. Doesn't surprise me a bit.]
“Ik heb er tot nu toe mijn mond over gehouden, en werden de mensen die het hier al eerder op die manier zagen verweten “dat” zij er zo over dachten,ik ben het in ieder geval met u eens, de zogenaamde superhelden die door Amerika altijd maar naar voren worden geschoven, altijd moeten ze koste wat kost de grootste de beste de sterkste etc etc zijn over de hele wereld. Kotsmisselijk word je er van, en dat terwijl voor het grootste deel,alles wat ze bezitten gekregen en afgepakt hebben, om maar niet te spreken van zogenaamde amerikaanse uitvindingen die door teams van veelal buitenlandse mensen worden gedaan...”
[Till now I've held my tongue about it, and people here who had this view already were chastised that they though about it thus, (but) in any case I agree with you, the so-called super-heroes put forward by America always just have to be the best and the biggest etc etc all over the world. It just makes you sick (literally: nauseous to the point of puking), and that while most of what they possess was given to them or stolen, not even mentioning the so-called American inventions, made by teams of mostly foreigners...]
“Is er dan nog een ander soort amerikanen?”
[Is there even another kind of American?]
Bush heeft zeker ook alsmaar de `verkiezingen’ gewonnen na zo’n extra boostpil.
[Bush surely won the ‘elections’ after an extra boostpill.]
“Erg domme Amerikanen”
[Very dumb Americans.]
“Landis’ moeder…… wist dat miljoenen Amerikanen voor zoon Floyd aan het bidden waren.
Tenenkrommend, nu nog een interview voor Fox door Ann Coulter, en morgen keilen de Amerikanen weer massaal Franse wijn en frieten in de goot, ja, want kritiek op de oorlog van Israël hebben die Fransen ook al….”
[Landis’ mother…… knew that millions of Americans were praying for (her) son Floyd. Toe-curling – all it will take now is an interview on Fox by Ann Coulter, and tomorrow the Americans will again toss massive quantities of French wine and fries into the gutter, uh huh, ‘cause those French also got criticism about that war of Israel’s…]
[Note: Jan Marijnissen is a Dutch Socialist Party Parliamentarian. He is from North Brabant (a territory of particular interest to me), and, being a socialist, naturally tends towards the radical.
As such he is, like many Dutch, hyper-critical of the United States and Israel.
But unlike many Dutch he is not an idiot but actually very intelligent and well-read - believe me, that is extremely unusual. It also sets him apart from most of the prominent members of the Dutch socialist fringe. Many of the commentators under his blog, on the other hand…… rabid idiots.]
Now, here, for your wry displeasure, is a sampling from the barely literate morons who infest the comment-sections of Het Algemeen Dagblad (a major newspaper which can be found here: http://www.ad.nl/ - the article in question is here: http://www.ad.nl/sport/tour/article500829.ece ):
“Ach, die amerikanen trekken de lijn van de laatste jaren gewoon door. Enige verschil is dat ze inmiddels ook zo stom zijn om zich te laten snappen”
[Oh well, those Americans just do things in the way they've done them for years. Only difference is that by now they're so stupid that they get caught.]
“Weer een Amerikaan die de Tour niet clean wint!!!!”
[Another American who didn't win the tour cleanly!!!]
“Die nep-cowboy verbannen naar de grotten van torra bora.”
[Banish that pretend-cowboy to the caves of Tora Bora.]]
“Het is toch zo een verdomd achterbaks volkje ook hé, Carl Lewis werd op het gebruik van dope betrapt maar hoefde zijn medailles niet in te leveren. Maar het leven van Ben Johnsson ( Canadees van geboorte) werd door de Amerikanen onmogelijk gemaakt.
Armstrong heeft, dat moge nu wel overduidelijk zijn, dope gebruikt om de Tour 7 keer te winnen. Volgens de Amerikanen heeft Armstrong de tour op klasse gewonnen en niets dope !
Tsja, wie herinnert zich niet de rel omtrent Pieter van Hoogenband toen hij de Amerikaanse topfavoriet in Sydney versloeg ? Volgens de Amerikanen was het onmogelijk om zonder dope zo een puike prestatie neer te zetten. Af en toe zijn de Yankees net als kinderen.”
[They're such a damned sleazy nation, eh, Carl Lewis was also caught using dope but didn't have to turn in his medals. But the life of Ben Johnson (Canadian by birth) was ruined by the Americans. Armstrong, as should be abundantly clear by now, used dope in order to win the tour seven times. According to the Americans, he won on his strengths and no dope! Well, who doesn't remember the racket when Pieter van Hoogenband whupped the American favorite in Sydney? Per the Americans it was impossible without dope to deliver such a splendid achievement. Now and then they're just like children.}]
“Godvrezende Amerikaan beduvelt de hele kluit en gaat er met de tourzege aan de haal ( tenminste dat dacht hij). Het kan bijna niet anders, immers zagen wij ook niet zijn eveneens Godvrezende President voor het oog van de hele wereld om Gods zegen en steun vragen teneinde met succes Saddams nucleaire arsenaal te kunnen vernietigen.”
[God-fearing American screws the lot and makes off with the tour victory (at least he thought he did). Hardly possible otherwise, after all did we not see his equally God-fearing president, in full view of the whole world, ask for God's blessing and support for success in destroying Saddam's nuclear arsenal.]
“Ja,Greg Lemond heeft ook zijn 3 zeges niet schoon gereden,toen Amstrong nou dus malle pietje Flooyd Landis,als ik de Tour directie was,boycot al die Yankee Doodles,ze gebruiken doping als snoepgoed in de states!”
[Yeah, Greg Lemond also didn't achieve his three victories cleanly, then Armstrong though now the moron Floyd Landis, if I were in charge of the tour, boycott all those Yankee Doodles, they use doping like it was candy in the States.]
“De laatste 20 jaar 11x een Amerikaanse tourwinnaar. Terwijl ze daar amper weten wat wielrennen is.
Je ziet ze het hele jaar niet en ineens staan ze er omdat ze zich zogenaamd maar op één koers richten. De Tour de France.
Ammahoela, 49 weken experimenteren met verboden middeltjes en hoe ze de UCI kunnen misleiden en dan alle Europeanen naar huis fietsen."
[The past twenty years eleven times an American winner of the tour. While they have scarcely a clue what bicycle racing is. The whole year they're nowhere, and then all of a sudden they're there, because they claim to gear themselves for just one race - the Tour De France. Pull the other one, forty nine weeks of experimenting with illegal substances and how to fool the UCI, then bulldozing all the Europeans.]
Well, what can I say about my fellow Dutch-speakers?
All I can offer is that not all of them are stark-raving mad, and that as with any group the percentage who are half-way capable of rational thought are outnumbered by cretins. And in this case, unfortunately, outnumbered by a huge majority.
But some of them are, believe it or not, actually quite decent folk.
Even though many (most) have not fully realized their potential, gotten an education, read much, developed any sense, or achieved anything all.
I had, long ago, thought much better of them – but then I thought better of everybody at that stage in my life. I remain optimistic that human societies will improve (scant evidence of that in Europe, but never mind), and there are always bright spots. One can but hope.
Regarding the Dutch tendency towards fevered pronouncements and insane illogic, as evinced by the statements cited above, the two most likely explanations are syphilis and mercury-poisoning. Both of those eventually affect the brain. And I know that at least in parts of the country the water is clean, so not all of them have mercury-poisoning……….
I have no explanation for their hatred of Americans. It is totally baffling, especially as they consume so much that is American, and ape Americans in so many ways.
Perhaps it is a bizarre form of self-loathing.
Tzarich iyun.....
Thursday, July 27, 2006
HONK IF YOU SUPPORT ISRAEL
And thank you for your encouragement.
That, at least, was the main result of today's pro-Israel counter-demo.
We occupied the Southeast corner of the intersection of Montgomery and Market Streets, opposite the bart-station and the point where Post splices into Monty before hitting Market.
Which was where they were.
The motley.
Because colonies of motley sprouted on the two other corners where we were not, it was easier to see how outnumbered we were. At our height there were around thirty of us.
I estimate their number as being two hundred and fifty to three hundred.
But, praise the master of the universe, their sound-barrage was not nearly as good as it normally is.
Their usual eloquent ringleader was not there this time - maybe he lost his voice after shouting and yelling for two solid hours this past Sunday.
[I hope nothing is wrong with him, he really should take some throat tablets and take better care of himself. He's already wasted any chance of an opera career... ]
Several of their other regulars were also missing in action - notably the young Arab gentleman with the phenomenal proboscis (a veritable beak, a savage promontory, a steam-locomotive's cattle-catcher, a proud bow, a sharp aquiline... anyway, it's beautiful, and adds distinction to his face).
Nor was the saucy Edomite temptress with the splendid voorgevel there either. Pity.
But instead, what may have been her cousin was - a short, plump virago, of a pleasing warm and glowing appearance, with sparkly eyes and good teeth, who yelled all manner of creative venom across a busy intersection during rush hour.
A Bas Yishmael in full fury (feathers all ruffled, raggy kefiyeh aflutter).
At a break in the noise I yelled back at her.
I'm not sure if she heard me.
So let me say it again here:
SWEETHEART, YOU'RE CUTE WHEN YOU'RE ANGRY!
;-D
---------
The other thing I yelled at some point was:
"your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of.... elderberries!"
Yeah, I know these two slogans are not part of the programme. But really, does anyone listen to what either side yells? Mostly they smile as they go past, or give the finger to one side, or a black power salute to the other side. But mostly they honk. Loud. Long. Honk. Honk.
We did get a good hollering section going chanting 'am Yisroel chai', and a group of Russians regularly broke into Hatikva. At some point we all sang haveinu sholom aleichem (while I'm sure many of us privately thought "your mother was a hamster and your father...").
The net result of this, like every counter demo, was not that Israel is strengthened or infused with renewed courage, nor given peace, or her suffering lessened.
No, the real effect of these events is that people who drive or walk by see that someone actively opposes the sonei-yisroel, that there are people who have not surrendered to the soft-in-the-head idea that Israel is a criminal-state and deserves censure, and they are not alone surrounded by those who hate them and would deny them and Israel their place.
And we hope that many take heart from seeing that even though outnumbered, am Yisroel chai.
Now, because I always remember it when outnumbered in a good cause, and think it good and altogether the right thing to chazak our emunah, let me give you an appropriate speech from Shakespeare (Henry V, before the battle of Agincourt):
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive!
No, faith, my cuz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. Oh, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tiptoe when this day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian'.
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day'.
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly remembered.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered -
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
Make him a member of the gentry, even if he is a commoner.
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
Oh yeah, baby. You're cute when you're angry.
---------------------------------------------
That, at least, was the main result of today's pro-Israel counter-demo.
We occupied the Southeast corner of the intersection of Montgomery and Market Streets, opposite the bart-station and the point where Post splices into Monty before hitting Market.
Which was where they were.
The motley.
Because colonies of motley sprouted on the two other corners where we were not, it was easier to see how outnumbered we were. At our height there were around thirty of us.
I estimate their number as being two hundred and fifty to three hundred.
But, praise the master of the universe, their sound-barrage was not nearly as good as it normally is.
Their usual eloquent ringleader was not there this time - maybe he lost his voice after shouting and yelling for two solid hours this past Sunday.
[I hope nothing is wrong with him, he really should take some throat tablets and take better care of himself. He's already wasted any chance of an opera career... ]
Several of their other regulars were also missing in action - notably the young Arab gentleman with the phenomenal proboscis (a veritable beak, a savage promontory, a steam-locomotive's cattle-catcher, a proud bow, a sharp aquiline... anyway, it's beautiful, and adds distinction to his face).
Nor was the saucy Edomite temptress with the splendid voorgevel there either. Pity.
But instead, what may have been her cousin was - a short, plump virago, of a pleasing warm and glowing appearance, with sparkly eyes and good teeth, who yelled all manner of creative venom across a busy intersection during rush hour.
A Bas Yishmael in full fury (feathers all ruffled, raggy kefiyeh aflutter).
At a break in the noise I yelled back at her.
I'm not sure if she heard me.
So let me say it again here:
SWEETHEART, YOU'RE CUTE WHEN YOU'RE ANGRY!
;-D
---------
The other thing I yelled at some point was:
"your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of.... elderberries!"
Yeah, I know these two slogans are not part of the programme. But really, does anyone listen to what either side yells? Mostly they smile as they go past, or give the finger to one side, or a black power salute to the other side. But mostly they honk. Loud. Long. Honk. Honk.
We did get a good hollering section going chanting 'am Yisroel chai', and a group of Russians regularly broke into Hatikva. At some point we all sang haveinu sholom aleichem (while I'm sure many of us privately thought "your mother was a hamster and your father...").
The net result of this, like every counter demo, was not that Israel is strengthened or infused with renewed courage, nor given peace, or her suffering lessened.
No, the real effect of these events is that people who drive or walk by see that someone actively opposes the sonei-yisroel, that there are people who have not surrendered to the soft-in-the-head idea that Israel is a criminal-state and deserves censure, and they are not alone surrounded by those who hate them and would deny them and Israel their place.
And we hope that many take heart from seeing that even though outnumbered, am Yisroel chai.
--- . --- . --- . --- . --- . --- . ---
Now, because I always remember it when outnumbered in a good cause, and think it good and altogether the right thing to chazak our emunah, let me give you an appropriate speech from Shakespeare (Henry V, before the battle of Agincourt):
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive!
No, faith, my cuz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. Oh, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tiptoe when this day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian'.
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day'.
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly remembered.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered -
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
Make him a member of the gentry, even if he is a commoner.
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
Oh yeah, baby. You're cute when you're angry.
---------------------------------------------
Wednesday, July 26, 2006
URGENT - ANOTHER BOGEY
Tia alerts me to another anti-Israel protest from the dark side, this one happening tomorrow.
Which hardly gives us any time to organize a significant counter protest to let people know that we strongly agree with Senator Feinstein, and strongly disagree with the point of view of those who wish ill on Israel.
Below is the forwarded text from the bad guys:
Press Conference at 4:30
Rally and Protest at 5 PM
Thursday, July 27
Senator Feinstein’s Office
1 Post (at Montgomery and Market streets -
Montgomery BART)
SFPLEASE POST WIDELY!PROTEST FEINSTEIN'S SUPPORT OF ISRAELI STATE TERRORISM AND WAR CRIMES
Press Conference at 4:30
Rally and Protest at 5 PMThursday, July 27
Senator Feinstein’s Office
1 Post (at Montgomery and Market streets -Montgomery BART)
San Francisco, CA
Senator Dianne Feinstein fully supports Israeli war crimes and terrorism against Lebanese and Palestinian civilians. Feinstein speaking at rally on Sunday vowed to continue her support for Israel’s widespread violations of international and humanitarian law that are causing hundreds of civilian deaths and destroying critical civilian infrastructures. With Feinstein’s support, the U.S. Congress approved a resolution giving Israel its full support just days after the U.S. government used its power to veto a UN resolution critical of Israel.
The Israeli military is collectively punishing the Lebanese and Palestinian populations by killing hundreds of civilians and destroying critical civilian infrastructures. There have been over 400 Lebanese civilians killed by Israeli military over the last 2 weeks including many children. There have been verified reports of the use of phosphorus bombs on civilians fleeing the Israeli siege in Lebanon. Gaza is with out adequate food and water and not only faces daily incursions by the Israeli occupation forces but has also been put under an economic embargo for months that targets the most vulnerable in Gaza.
On Thursday we will mobize to demand that Feinstein and the US government support human rights and justice instead of their perpetuation of racism and violence. We demand that the US immediately pressures Israel to stop its aggression on Palestinian and Lebanese civilians. We demand the US government end the use of our tax dollars for enabling on-going Israeli oppression of Palestinians and attacks on the people of Lebanon. Please join us for a Press Conference and Protest at Senator Feinstein’s office building this Thursday.
--------------------------------
IF YOU WISH TO COUNTER PROTEST AND SUPPORT OUR SENATOR AND OUR COUNTRY'S SOLIDARITY WITH ISRAEL, PLEASE CALL YOUR FRIENDS AND SHOW UP TO LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD.
Please copy and forward this notice.
And also add a comment letting me/us know if you will be there.
Bring Israeli and American flags, and/or signs showing your support of Senator Dianne Feinstein and Israel.
I realize this is short notice, but if you work in downtown SF, the time and place are easy. And again, let everyone know, and add a comment to this post. Thank you.
Which hardly gives us any time to organize a significant counter protest to let people know that we strongly agree with Senator Feinstein, and strongly disagree with the point of view of those who wish ill on Israel.
Below is the forwarded text from the bad guys:
Press Conference at 4:30
Rally and Protest at 5 PM
Thursday, July 27
Senator Feinstein’s Office
1 Post (at Montgomery and Market streets -
Montgomery BART)
SFPLEASE POST WIDELY!PROTEST FEINSTEIN'S SUPPORT OF ISRAELI STATE TERRORISM AND WAR CRIMES
Press Conference at 4:30
Rally and Protest at 5 PMThursday, July 27
Senator Feinstein’s Office
1 Post (at Montgomery and Market streets -Montgomery BART)
San Francisco, CA
Senator Dianne Feinstein fully supports Israeli war crimes and terrorism against Lebanese and Palestinian civilians. Feinstein speaking at rally on Sunday vowed to continue her support for Israel’s widespread violations of international and humanitarian law that are causing hundreds of civilian deaths and destroying critical civilian infrastructures. With Feinstein’s support, the U.S. Congress approved a resolution giving Israel its full support just days after the U.S. government used its power to veto a UN resolution critical of Israel.
The Israeli military is collectively punishing the Lebanese and Palestinian populations by killing hundreds of civilians and destroying critical civilian infrastructures. There have been over 400 Lebanese civilians killed by Israeli military over the last 2 weeks including many children. There have been verified reports of the use of phosphorus bombs on civilians fleeing the Israeli siege in Lebanon. Gaza is with out adequate food and water and not only faces daily incursions by the Israeli occupation forces but has also been put under an economic embargo for months that targets the most vulnerable in Gaza.
On Thursday we will mobize to demand that Feinstein and the US government support human rights and justice instead of their perpetuation of racism and violence. We demand that the US immediately pressures Israel to stop its aggression on Palestinian and Lebanese civilians. We demand the US government end the use of our tax dollars for enabling on-going Israeli oppression of Palestinians and attacks on the people of Lebanon. Please join us for a Press Conference and Protest at Senator Feinstein’s office building this Thursday.
--------------------------------
IF YOU WISH TO COUNTER PROTEST AND SUPPORT OUR SENATOR AND OUR COUNTRY'S SOLIDARITY WITH ISRAEL, PLEASE CALL YOUR FRIENDS AND SHOW UP TO LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD.
Please copy and forward this notice.
And also add a comment letting me/us know if you will be there.
Bring Israeli and American flags, and/or signs showing your support of Senator Dianne Feinstein and Israel.
I realize this is short notice, but if you work in downtown SF, the time and place are easy. And again, let everyone know, and add a comment to this post. Thank you.
Monday, July 24, 2006
THE RALLY, AND AFTER
Fun, though not overwhelmingly attended.
Many of us who show up at these events recognize each other, and there were folks there I had not seen in a long time.
In a way these events are like old school week. You ask people how they have been since you last met, recognize someone you really must go say hello to, cock half an ear towards the speechifying..... some long electronic voice over rumble finishes, sounding exactly like one of those unintelligible airport announcements, and everybody claps like crazy (the news that flight nine three two from Newark or Milwaukee is delayed is cause for joy?).
Off to the side, behind barricades, the Green Party opportunistically counter-demoed.
Todd Chrétien seems to believe that pishing on someone else's parade is good for his political campaign. Please remember to vote against him, and urge others to also vote against him.
Off to another side, about twenty angry Filistini screamed some very strange stuff.
Did you know that eighty-two percent of our government is Israeli? Neither did I.
A very zonked female in hippy garb, with a hysterically fake Jamaican accent, sort of wafted and dilly-danced through the crowd, singing something about either all da bruddas peace, ya mon, or the after-effects of ganja - I'm not sure which.
I had several conversations with friends - 'the dialectic between faith and reason', 'likutei amarim', some passages in Nezikin, Jacob Neussner, bullhorn, nice sign, the heat the heat the heat.
At one point, a friend who had wandered off towards the palms took offense at what one of the Palestinian protestors said and ran screaming back toward the barricade red in the face to furiously yell at them - I never saw tzitzit fly like that before.
By and large a good time was had by all - including the eloquent young rabble-rouser who always seems to lead the Filistini side, who during the 'post-barricade-removal-wind-down-and-schmooze-fest period of the day ended up in a long conversation with a Chabad rabbi.
What I cannot quite understand is that less than two thousand or so people showed up.
There are half a million Jews in the Bay Area - most undoubtedly support Israel - where were they?
What about all those fundy Christians who are alleged to support Israel - where were they?
So many groups sponsored the rally, but where were they?
If I can get my lazy tuchus, hangover and all, washed - dressed - and down to Justin Herman plaza, then so can everybody else - snotthathardverdomme.
So, what did Senator Feinstein say? I have no idea....
The Chronicle, in their article about the event in today's paper, gave as much print space to Todd Chrétien's Quisling pro-Hezbollah bafflegab as to what Dianne Feinstein said, and topped it off by quoting the Palestinian counterprotestors in detail.
The SF Chronicle, it should be noted, is famous for the inaccuracy of its weather reports, and for having all the best syndicated cartoons on its comics page.
Many of us who show up at these events recognize each other, and there were folks there I had not seen in a long time.
In a way these events are like old school week. You ask people how they have been since you last met, recognize someone you really must go say hello to, cock half an ear towards the speechifying..... some long electronic voice over rumble finishes, sounding exactly like one of those unintelligible airport announcements, and everybody claps like crazy (the news that flight nine three two from Newark or Milwaukee is delayed is cause for joy?).
Off to the side, behind barricades, the Green Party opportunistically counter-demoed.
Todd Chrétien seems to believe that pishing on someone else's parade is good for his political campaign. Please remember to vote against him, and urge others to also vote against him.
Off to another side, about twenty angry Filistini screamed some very strange stuff.
Did you know that eighty-two percent of our government is Israeli? Neither did I.
A very zonked female in hippy garb, with a hysterically fake Jamaican accent, sort of wafted and dilly-danced through the crowd, singing something about either all da bruddas peace, ya mon, or the after-effects of ganja - I'm not sure which.
I had several conversations with friends - 'the dialectic between faith and reason', 'likutei amarim', some passages in Nezikin, Jacob Neussner, bullhorn, nice sign, the heat the heat the heat.
At one point, a friend who had wandered off towards the palms took offense at what one of the Palestinian protestors said and ran screaming back toward the barricade red in the face to furiously yell at them - I never saw tzitzit fly like that before.
By and large a good time was had by all - including the eloquent young rabble-rouser who always seems to lead the Filistini side, who during the 'post-barricade-removal-wind-down-and-schmooze-fest period of the day ended up in a long conversation with a Chabad rabbi.
What I cannot quite understand is that less than two thousand or so people showed up.
There are half a million Jews in the Bay Area - most undoubtedly support Israel - where were they?
What about all those fundy Christians who are alleged to support Israel - where were they?
So many groups sponsored the rally, but where were they?
If I can get my lazy tuchus, hangover and all, washed - dressed - and down to Justin Herman plaza, then so can everybody else - snotthathardverdomme.
So, what did Senator Feinstein say? I have no idea....
The Chronicle, in their article about the event in today's paper, gave as much print space to Todd Chrétien's Quisling pro-Hezbollah bafflegab as to what Dianne Feinstein said, and topped it off by quoting the Palestinian counterprotestors in detail.
The SF Chronicle, it should be noted, is famous for the inaccuracy of its weather reports, and for having all the best syndicated cartoons on its comics page.
ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS
The following talking points were forwarded by a friend. Please feel free to copy and forward to as many of your friends and associates as you wish - in fact, I strongly encourage you to do so.
ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS
1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE THE BIRTH OF ISLAM;
2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD (THE TERM PALESTINIAN DURING THE MANDATE REFERRED TO ZIONISTS);
3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C.E., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;
4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;
5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT (EXCEPT FOR KING ABDALLAH, WHO WAS ASSASSINATED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE ON JULY 20, 1951, ON THE STEPS OF EL AQSA MOSQUE;
6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;
7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;
8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;
9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;
10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;
11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;
12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGEES WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;
13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;
14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;
15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS (THE JORDANIANS USED THE WALL AS A URINAL AND SYNAGOGUES AS STABLES). UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;
16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;
17. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.
18. ARAB CITIZENS OF ISRAEL HAVE THE VOTE, AND ARE REPRESENTED IN THE KNESSET. ONE OUT OF FIVE ISRAELI CITIZENS IS AN ARAB.
ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS
1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE THE BIRTH OF ISLAM;
2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD (THE TERM PALESTINIAN DURING THE MANDATE REFERRED TO ZIONISTS);
3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C.E., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;
4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;
5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT (EXCEPT FOR KING ABDALLAH, WHO WAS ASSASSINATED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE ON JULY 20, 1951, ON THE STEPS OF EL AQSA MOSQUE;
6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;
7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;
8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;
9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;
10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;
11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;
12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGEES WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;
13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;
14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;
15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS (THE JORDANIANS USED THE WALL AS A URINAL AND SYNAGOGUES AS STABLES). UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;
16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;
17. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.
18. ARAB CITIZENS OF ISRAEL HAVE THE VOTE, AND ARE REPRESENTED IN THE KNESSET. ONE OUT OF FIVE ISRAELI CITIZENS IS AN ARAB.
Thursday, July 20, 2006
NOT THE UN - By R. Jeremy Rosen
Follows an opinion piece by Rabbi Jeremy Rosen (www.jeremyrosen.com.) pasted here with permission.
Note that at present I see absolutely no reason to argue with any part of the opinions given below - and, were I to say anything at all, I would not only detract from the clarity, but also possibly offend because of my undiplomatic personal thoughts on the matter.
NOT THE UN
Calls for the United Nations to send peacekeepers into Lebanon are a sick joke. Have we forgotten that previously Indian UN peacekeepers lent their uniforms to Hezbollah? Indeed, are we all unaware that there are UN 'peacekeepers' in Southern Lebanon still, at this very moment? What HAVE they been doing?
The United Nations is useless and it should be scrapped. Its so-calledpeacekeepers have never kept the peace, but have certainly broughtcorruption, mendacity and sexual exploitation to wherever they have been sent. And, of course, the United Nations itself is so hamstrung by politics that it cannot even get agreement on the ethnic cleansing andgenocide in Darfur, or deal with Iran or North Korea's rogue nuclear policies (I say rogue because other countries which have nuclear capability do not make a point of threatening to obliterate others). It stood by and let the Rwanda Massacres take place. It allowed the Srebrenica Massacres to happen before its very eyes. As for the infamous oil deals with Saddam Hussein's regime, the subsequent reports have all agreed that corruption was endemic and overwhelming.
You will doubtless think I am biased because the United Nations debates and votes on about 35 anti-Israel resolutions each year and spends millions on special bodies designed exclusively to condemn Israel alone while doing nothing about the millions of Muslims and Christians killed by corrupt Muslim states. Yes, it's true--I do think balance andreciprocity is an issue. I am all for condemning any betrayal of human beings any dehumanization of God's creatures, wherever and by whoever perpetrates them. But to single out one state, whose victims pale in comparison to others in terms of number and degree of torture applied, is simply proof that we are not dealing with honest people.
Winston Churchill is reported to have said that he was in favour of the UN even if it was only a 'talking shop' because 'jaw jaw was better thanwar war.' I concede that if they were mutually exclusive then obviously talking is better than fighting. But it is not the case. The 'jaw jaw' goes on while the 'war war' continues.
So what then is the point of 'jawjaw' if it is totally ineffective?
Why should millions be spent on an incompetent and impotent talking shop when the money saved could rid the world of malaria and bring drinkable water to millions of humans? Instead, corrupt representatives of sickand failed regimes go to New York to have a great time doing nothing more than spouting hypocritical , unconsidered platitudes to an audienceof closed minds. It's not the UN that ever gets anywhere challenging theUSA. It was its own Supreme Court which stopped the processes at Guantanamo Bay.
As Edward Luttwack has shown, wherever the United Nations has intervened it has only prolonged the conflict and the agony. In the bad old days nations fought each other and large numbers were killed. But at least there was a resolution. Some survived, some did not. Human affairs have always been about shifting alliances, moving populations, refugees,victims and victors. We Jews have suffered more than most from the vicissitudes of history because we've been around longer than anyone else and gone through more than anyone else. And we know that defence starts at home. But we also know that a weak policeman is often far worse than no policeman. With no policeman you know the odds and you decide to fight or concede. With a weak or corrupt policeman you never know what new factor enters the arena, what dirty tactics might be employed while your hands may be tied behind your back.
One of the saving graces of the United Nations is said to be its agencies. Some of them may indeed do some good, but you don't need theUN for them. They could perfectly well exist independently as do World Trade organisations. Some of their agencies are simply bodies that are paid to perpetuate strife, like the UN agencies in Palestine that say that they have to allow anti-Israel and anti-Semitic material to be used in their school because otherwise they would not be trusted. Of course,"Trusted by whom?" is the question. Indeed, when it comes to aidingPalestinians, who are so poorly served by their leadership, in a humanitarian way (as opposed to giving them money for arms) it is clear that help comes neither from the UN nor the Arab States (who appear to use them as tools to distract their own malcontents) but rather fromEurope, the USA, and, ironically, Israel.
Another example of UN moral corruption is the Human Rights Council, supposedly a reformed version of the discredited Commission on Human Rights which became such a laughingstock with countries such as Zimbabwe, Libya or Saudi Arabia presiding. It was officially replaced last March but, of course, the reform was totally fudged. So here we go again with a council that includes Russia and Azerbaijan, and in which 16 of the 29 states involved come from Africa and Asia and half of them are Muslim. And what is the first thing they have to deal with? What isthe world's biggest problem? Where are most Muslims being killed nowadays or most citizens being jailed for dissent? Not Darfur, not Zimbabwe, not China, not Kashmir, not Iraq, not Saudi Arabia, not Syria, not Lebanon, no. Guess who? No, don't bother. Not even the combative US ambassador, John Bolton, can get anywhere with these apologies for'statesmen.' For humanity's sake scrap it. Save the cash. Donate it to the poor or give it to Bill Gates. I trust him more than the UN.
I'm not sure that bombing Lebanon in general brings peace, even if Hezbollah uses civilians as shields for its supplies and launching pads and its Prime Minister declares that Hezbollah IS Lebanon. But I do think destroying Hezbollah and standing up to Syria and Iran will help. Greater experts than I have stated that Hezbollah is not interested in Palestinians or Sunnis, or, indeed, Lebanon. But don't expect the UN to care.
Whatever Israel does, it must not consign its safety to these jokers.
Shabbat Shalom
---Jeremy
Please visit Jeremy Rosen's website for more writings, here:
http://www.jeremyrosen.com/
Or join a mailinglist - there are two:
JROSEN Mailing List
The Jeremy Rosen Discussion Group (JROSEN) is an email forum for exploring issues of Orthodox Jewish living, based on the assumption that commitment to Torah doesn't require fundamentalism, rejection of culture, or conformity to one particular social norm. The purpose of the jrosen list is to provide support and encouragement, as well as information.
Jeremy's Open Discussion Mailing List
Jeremy Rosen's Open Discussion (JROD) is a forum for asking questions and discussing issues related to Judaism or anything else about life. It is open to non-Jews and Jews of all persuasions.
Both mailing lists have clickable links on the website.
Note that at present I see absolutely no reason to argue with any part of the opinions given below - and, were I to say anything at all, I would not only detract from the clarity, but also possibly offend because of my undiplomatic personal thoughts on the matter.
--------- --------- ---------
NOT THE UN
Calls for the United Nations to send peacekeepers into Lebanon are a sick joke. Have we forgotten that previously Indian UN peacekeepers lent their uniforms to Hezbollah? Indeed, are we all unaware that there are UN 'peacekeepers' in Southern Lebanon still, at this very moment? What HAVE they been doing?
The United Nations is useless and it should be scrapped. Its so-calledpeacekeepers have never kept the peace, but have certainly broughtcorruption, mendacity and sexual exploitation to wherever they have been sent. And, of course, the United Nations itself is so hamstrung by politics that it cannot even get agreement on the ethnic cleansing andgenocide in Darfur, or deal with Iran or North Korea's rogue nuclear policies (I say rogue because other countries which have nuclear capability do not make a point of threatening to obliterate others). It stood by and let the Rwanda Massacres take place. It allowed the Srebrenica Massacres to happen before its very eyes. As for the infamous oil deals with Saddam Hussein's regime, the subsequent reports have all agreed that corruption was endemic and overwhelming.
You will doubtless think I am biased because the United Nations debates and votes on about 35 anti-Israel resolutions each year and spends millions on special bodies designed exclusively to condemn Israel alone while doing nothing about the millions of Muslims and Christians killed by corrupt Muslim states. Yes, it's true--I do think balance andreciprocity is an issue. I am all for condemning any betrayal of human beings any dehumanization of God's creatures, wherever and by whoever perpetrates them. But to single out one state, whose victims pale in comparison to others in terms of number and degree of torture applied, is simply proof that we are not dealing with honest people.
Winston Churchill is reported to have said that he was in favour of the UN even if it was only a 'talking shop' because 'jaw jaw was better thanwar war.' I concede that if they were mutually exclusive then obviously talking is better than fighting. But it is not the case. The 'jaw jaw' goes on while the 'war war' continues.
So what then is the point of 'jawjaw' if it is totally ineffective?
Why should millions be spent on an incompetent and impotent talking shop when the money saved could rid the world of malaria and bring drinkable water to millions of humans? Instead, corrupt representatives of sickand failed regimes go to New York to have a great time doing nothing more than spouting hypocritical , unconsidered platitudes to an audienceof closed minds. It's not the UN that ever gets anywhere challenging theUSA. It was its own Supreme Court which stopped the processes at Guantanamo Bay.
As Edward Luttwack has shown, wherever the United Nations has intervened it has only prolonged the conflict and the agony. In the bad old days nations fought each other and large numbers were killed. But at least there was a resolution. Some survived, some did not. Human affairs have always been about shifting alliances, moving populations, refugees,victims and victors. We Jews have suffered more than most from the vicissitudes of history because we've been around longer than anyone else and gone through more than anyone else. And we know that defence starts at home. But we also know that a weak policeman is often far worse than no policeman. With no policeman you know the odds and you decide to fight or concede. With a weak or corrupt policeman you never know what new factor enters the arena, what dirty tactics might be employed while your hands may be tied behind your back.
One of the saving graces of the United Nations is said to be its agencies. Some of them may indeed do some good, but you don't need theUN for them. They could perfectly well exist independently as do World Trade organisations. Some of their agencies are simply bodies that are paid to perpetuate strife, like the UN agencies in Palestine that say that they have to allow anti-Israel and anti-Semitic material to be used in their school because otherwise they would not be trusted. Of course,"Trusted by whom?" is the question. Indeed, when it comes to aidingPalestinians, who are so poorly served by their leadership, in a humanitarian way (as opposed to giving them money for arms) it is clear that help comes neither from the UN nor the Arab States (who appear to use them as tools to distract their own malcontents) but rather fromEurope, the USA, and, ironically, Israel.
Another example of UN moral corruption is the Human Rights Council, supposedly a reformed version of the discredited Commission on Human Rights which became such a laughingstock with countries such as Zimbabwe, Libya or Saudi Arabia presiding. It was officially replaced last March but, of course, the reform was totally fudged. So here we go again with a council that includes Russia and Azerbaijan, and in which 16 of the 29 states involved come from Africa and Asia and half of them are Muslim. And what is the first thing they have to deal with? What isthe world's biggest problem? Where are most Muslims being killed nowadays or most citizens being jailed for dissent? Not Darfur, not Zimbabwe, not China, not Kashmir, not Iraq, not Saudi Arabia, not Syria, not Lebanon, no. Guess who? No, don't bother. Not even the combative US ambassador, John Bolton, can get anywhere with these apologies for'statesmen.' For humanity's sake scrap it. Save the cash. Donate it to the poor or give it to Bill Gates. I trust him more than the UN.
I'm not sure that bombing Lebanon in general brings peace, even if Hezbollah uses civilians as shields for its supplies and launching pads and its Prime Minister declares that Hezbollah IS Lebanon. But I do think destroying Hezbollah and standing up to Syria and Iran will help. Greater experts than I have stated that Hezbollah is not interested in Palestinians or Sunnis, or, indeed, Lebanon. But don't expect the UN to care.
Whatever Israel does, it must not consign its safety to these jokers.
Shabbat Shalom
---Jeremy
--------- --------- ---------
Please visit Jeremy Rosen's website for more writings, here:
http://www.jeremyrosen.com/
Or join a mailinglist - there are two:
JROSEN Mailing List
The Jeremy Rosen Discussion Group (JROSEN) is an email forum for exploring issues of Orthodox Jewish living, based on the assumption that commitment to Torah doesn't require fundamentalism, rejection of culture, or conformity to one particular social norm. The purpose of the jrosen list is to provide support and encouragement, as well as information.
Jeremy's Open Discussion Mailing List
Jeremy Rosen's Open Discussion (JROD) is a forum for asking questions and discussing issues related to Judaism or anything else about life. It is open to non-Jews and Jews of all persuasions.
Both mailing lists have clickable links on the website.
SOLIDARITY RALLY FOR ISRAEL JULY 23, 2006
ACTION ALERT – FORWARD WIDELY
Community Wide Solidarity Rally for IsraelSunday, July 23rd, noon
Justin Herman Plaza, Downtown San Francisco (at thefoot of Market Street and the Embarcadero)
BACKGROUND:
On July 11th, Hezbollah terrorists from Lebanon infiltrated into Israel and captured two Israeli soldiers and murdered eight more. In response,Israel launched an all out operation to rescue her soldiers. Hezbollah subsequently started a murderous campaign against Israeli citizens by bombing civiliantargets across northern Israel including Haifa, Israel’s third largest city and San Francisco’s sistercity.
Not content to just murder Jews, Hezbollah has attacked numerous Arab cities within Israel including the largest Arab city, Nazareth, and has also bombed the gardens of the beautiful Baha’i Temple in Haifa.
Sadly, Hezbollah also uses the citizens of Lebanon as human shields for Hezbollah’s despicable activities, thus causing numerous civilian casualties as Israel works to neutralize Hezbollah’s murderous capabilityand retrieve the captured Israeli soldiers.
All this is occurring while Israel continues its operation in Gaza to end the constant barrage of missiles on southern Israel and win the release of the soldier kidnapped last month. None of the captured soldiers are being granted Geneva Convention rights as prisoners of war.
Hezbollah likes to claim that they are “resistance” to“occupation.”
This is disputed even by the UN, who certified that Israel was no longer operating on any part of Lebanese territory as determined by the UN demarcated “blue line” setting Israel’s northern border. Furthermore, the UN called for Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah in UN Security Resolution 1559 – a step the Lebanese government has refused to take.
RALLY DETAILS:
A broad spectrum of the pro-Israel community will rally in solidarity with Israel. Numerous prominent speakers will be present as well as a large number of sponsors. Also likely to be present will be a large, noisy protest by the anti-Israel groups who have promised to disrupt any Israeli solidarity events. They have pledged their allegiance to Hamas andHezbollah as well and have taunted pro-Israelactivists with anti-Semitic chants and taunts, even at the “Jewish led” anti-Israel protest on July 17th.
You can see some examples here:
http://www.zombietime.com/israeli_consulate_protest_july_13_2006/
We will be standing in solidarity with the community while also using our experience with the anti-Israel protestors to keep them away from the main rally. Please bring your noisemakers, flags, and signs.
As always, feel free to make your own signs but please no signs or graphics offensive to any racial or ethnic group including but not limited to Arabs, Islam, or Palestinians. Signs in violation of our policies will not be allowed.
Stand With Israel!
Stand Against Terror!
Demand Lebanon disarm Hezbollah!
Demand an end to rocket attacks against Israelicivilians!
Demand Gilad Shalit, Eldad Regev, and Ehud Goldwasserbe returned home safely!
StandWithUs/ San Francisco Voice for Israel
www.SFVoiceForIsrael.org
www.StandWithUs.com
------------------------------------------------------
Upcoming Events:
Saturday, August 12th – Wrong, A.N.S.W.E.R. counterrally. 10:30 AM, Civic Center, downtown San Francisco.
Saturday, October 28th – Wrong, A.N.S.W.E.R. counterrally. Details coming when they are available.
------------------------------------------------------
Do you want to become more involved with organizingour activities? Send a message to info@SFVoiceForIsrael.org
If you are interested in participating in our campaignto counter anti-Israel speakers, please send an e-mail to
info@SFVoiceForIsrael.org
Join the discussion! Do you have ideas? Classes to announce? Events to announce or discuss? Join ourdiscussion list by sending an e-mail to
sfproisrael-subscribe@yahoogroups.com .
San Francisco Voice for Israel is a non-partisancoalition that takes no position on the war in Iraq,the settlements, or Israel's final borders. Ourmembers span the political spectrum and are unitedonly by our commitment to preserving the State ofIsrael as a Jewish State within secure borders.Please send your tax deductible donation toStand With UsP.O. Box 341069Los Angeles, CA 90034-1069Write SFV4I in the memo line.
----------------------------------------------
http://jcrc.org/israel/solidarity_rally_7_23-06.htm
COMMUNITY WIDE RALLY
12:00 noon - Sunday, July 23, 2006 Justin Herman Plaza - San Francisco (at the foot of Market street and the Embarcadero) During this time of crisis, when Israel's citizens arebeing attacked, we invite you to attend a communitywide rally and Stand in Solidarity with the people of Israel.
More information 415.957.1551
Sponsored by:
• Jewish Community Federation of San Francisco, the Peninsula, Marin and Sonoma Counties
• Jewish Community Relation Council
• Jewish Community Federation of the Greater East Bay
Co-Sponsored by Anti Defamation League, American Israel Public Affairs Committee, American Jewish Committee, Board of Rabbis of Northern California, Blue Star PR, Congregation Beth Sholom, The Congregation Emanu-El, Congregation Sherith Israel, Congregation of the Russian Jewish Community of SF, Hadassah Jewish Family and Children's Services, Jews Indigenous to the Middle East and NorthAfrica, New Israel Fund, Orthodox Rabbinical Council of San Francisco, Raoul Wallenberg Jewish DemocraticClub, Republican Jewish Coalition, StandWithUs/SFVoice for Israel, Union for Reform Judaism, United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism.
------------------------------------------------
Now is the time for pro-Israel activists to standtogether with the United States leadership and thepeople of Israel to actively demonstrate US-Israelsolidarity in the Bay Area.
Please join the organizedpro-Israel community at one or more of the eventslisted below and forward this email widely to othersin the pro-Israel community.
Marin on Thursday, July 20 at 7:00 pm
Stand With Israel Rally
Congregation Kol Shofar
215 Blackfield Drive, Tiburon
FRESNO STANDS WITH ISRAEL-- SUPPORT RALLY
Friday, July 21st, 20064:30-6:30pm
Corner of Shaw & Blackstone
San Francisco on Sunday, July 23 at 12:00 noon
Stand Against Terrorism - Stand With Israel
Community-wide Rally
Justin Herman Plaza
At the foot of Market street and the Embarcadero
San Jose on Sunday, July 23 at 5:00 pm
Stand With Israel Rally
Circle of Palms
On Market Street between Fairmont Hotel and San Jose Art Museum
South Peninsula on Monday, July 24 at 7:30 pm
A Night of Solidarity with Israel
Congregation Beth Am
26792 Arastradero Road, Los Altos Hills
North Peninsula on Tuesday, July 25 at 7:30 pm
A Night of Solidarity with Israel
Peninsula Temple Beth El
1700 Alameda de las Pulgas, San Mateo
Oakland on Wednesday, July 26 at 7:30 pm
In Prayer and Solidarity for the State of Israel
Temple Sinai28th and Webster Streets, Oakland
Lafayette on Thursday, July 27 at 7:30 pm
In Prayer and Solidarity for the State of Israel
Temple Isaiah
3800 Mount Diablo Boulevard, Lafayette
Community Wide Solidarity Rally for IsraelSunday, July 23rd, noon
Justin Herman Plaza, Downtown San Francisco (at thefoot of Market Street and the Embarcadero)
BACKGROUND:
On July 11th, Hezbollah terrorists from Lebanon infiltrated into Israel and captured two Israeli soldiers and murdered eight more. In response,Israel launched an all out operation to rescue her soldiers. Hezbollah subsequently started a murderous campaign against Israeli citizens by bombing civiliantargets across northern Israel including Haifa, Israel’s third largest city and San Francisco’s sistercity.
Not content to just murder Jews, Hezbollah has attacked numerous Arab cities within Israel including the largest Arab city, Nazareth, and has also bombed the gardens of the beautiful Baha’i Temple in Haifa.
Sadly, Hezbollah also uses the citizens of Lebanon as human shields for Hezbollah’s despicable activities, thus causing numerous civilian casualties as Israel works to neutralize Hezbollah’s murderous capabilityand retrieve the captured Israeli soldiers.
All this is occurring while Israel continues its operation in Gaza to end the constant barrage of missiles on southern Israel and win the release of the soldier kidnapped last month. None of the captured soldiers are being granted Geneva Convention rights as prisoners of war.
Hezbollah likes to claim that they are “resistance” to“occupation.”
This is disputed even by the UN, who certified that Israel was no longer operating on any part of Lebanese territory as determined by the UN demarcated “blue line” setting Israel’s northern border. Furthermore, the UN called for Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah in UN Security Resolution 1559 – a step the Lebanese government has refused to take.
RALLY DETAILS:
A broad spectrum of the pro-Israel community will rally in solidarity with Israel. Numerous prominent speakers will be present as well as a large number of sponsors. Also likely to be present will be a large, noisy protest by the anti-Israel groups who have promised to disrupt any Israeli solidarity events. They have pledged their allegiance to Hamas andHezbollah as well and have taunted pro-Israelactivists with anti-Semitic chants and taunts, even at the “Jewish led” anti-Israel protest on July 17th.
You can see some examples here:
http://www.zombietime.com/israeli_consulate_protest_july_13_2006/
We will be standing in solidarity with the community while also using our experience with the anti-Israel protestors to keep them away from the main rally. Please bring your noisemakers, flags, and signs.
As always, feel free to make your own signs but please no signs or graphics offensive to any racial or ethnic group including but not limited to Arabs, Islam, or Palestinians. Signs in violation of our policies will not be allowed.
Stand With Israel!
Stand Against Terror!
Demand Lebanon disarm Hezbollah!
Demand an end to rocket attacks against Israelicivilians!
Demand Gilad Shalit, Eldad Regev, and Ehud Goldwasserbe returned home safely!
StandWithUs/ San Francisco Voice for Israel
www.SFVoiceForIsrael.org
www.StandWithUs.com
------------------------------------------------------
Upcoming Events:
Saturday, August 12th – Wrong, A.N.S.W.E.R. counterrally. 10:30 AM, Civic Center, downtown San Francisco.
Saturday, October 28th – Wrong, A.N.S.W.E.R. counterrally. Details coming when they are available.
------------------------------------------------------
Do you want to become more involved with organizingour activities? Send a message to info@SFVoiceForIsrael.org
If you are interested in participating in our campaignto counter anti-Israel speakers, please send an e-mail to
info@SFVoiceForIsrael.org
Join the discussion! Do you have ideas? Classes to announce? Events to announce or discuss? Join ourdiscussion list by sending an e-mail to
sfproisrael-subscribe@yahoogroups.com .
San Francisco Voice for Israel is a non-partisancoalition that takes no position on the war in Iraq,the settlements, or Israel's final borders. Ourmembers span the political spectrum and are unitedonly by our commitment to preserving the State ofIsrael as a Jewish State within secure borders.Please send your tax deductible donation toStand With UsP.O. Box 341069Los Angeles, CA 90034-1069Write SFV4I in the memo line.
----------------------------------------------
http://jcrc.org/israel/solidarity_rally_7_23-06.htm
COMMUNITY WIDE RALLY
12:00 noon - Sunday, July 23, 2006 Justin Herman Plaza - San Francisco (at the foot of Market street and the Embarcadero) During this time of crisis, when Israel's citizens arebeing attacked, we invite you to attend a communitywide rally and Stand in Solidarity with the people of Israel.
More information 415.957.1551
Sponsored by:
• Jewish Community Federation of San Francisco, the Peninsula, Marin and Sonoma Counties
• Jewish Community Relation Council
• Jewish Community Federation of the Greater East Bay
Co-Sponsored by Anti Defamation League, American Israel Public Affairs Committee, American Jewish Committee, Board of Rabbis of Northern California, Blue Star PR, Congregation Beth Sholom, The Congregation Emanu-El, Congregation Sherith Israel, Congregation of the Russian Jewish Community of SF, Hadassah Jewish Family and Children's Services, Jews Indigenous to the Middle East and NorthAfrica, New Israel Fund, Orthodox Rabbinical Council of San Francisco, Raoul Wallenberg Jewish DemocraticClub, Republican Jewish Coalition, StandWithUs/SFVoice for Israel, Union for Reform Judaism, United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism.
------------------------------------------------
Now is the time for pro-Israel activists to standtogether with the United States leadership and thepeople of Israel to actively demonstrate US-Israelsolidarity in the Bay Area.
Please join the organizedpro-Israel community at one or more of the eventslisted below and forward this email widely to othersin the pro-Israel community.
Marin on Thursday, July 20 at 7:00 pm
Stand With Israel Rally
Congregation Kol Shofar
215 Blackfield Drive, Tiburon
FRESNO STANDS WITH ISRAEL-- SUPPORT RALLY
Friday, July 21st, 20064:30-6:30pm
Corner of Shaw & Blackstone
San Francisco on Sunday, July 23 at 12:00 noon
Stand Against Terrorism - Stand With Israel
Community-wide Rally
Justin Herman Plaza
At the foot of Market street and the Embarcadero
San Jose on Sunday, July 23 at 5:00 pm
Stand With Israel Rally
Circle of Palms
On Market Street between Fairmont Hotel and San Jose Art Museum
South Peninsula on Monday, July 24 at 7:30 pm
A Night of Solidarity with Israel
Congregation Beth Am
26792 Arastradero Road, Los Altos Hills
North Peninsula on Tuesday, July 25 at 7:30 pm
A Night of Solidarity with Israel
Peninsula Temple Beth El
1700 Alameda de las Pulgas, San Mateo
Oakland on Wednesday, July 26 at 7:30 pm
In Prayer and Solidarity for the State of Israel
Temple Sinai28th and Webster Streets, Oakland
Lafayette on Thursday, July 27 at 7:30 pm
In Prayer and Solidarity for the State of Israel
Temple Isaiah
3800 Mount Diablo Boulevard, Lafayette
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GRITS AND TOFU
Like most Americans, I have a list of people who should be peacefully retired from public service and thereafter kept away from their desks,...
